Thursday, September 19, 2019

X-Solicits for December 2019

Excalibur #3 & #4
Tini Howard (W) • Marcus To (A)
Cover by: Mahmud Asrar
Issue #3 – Venom Island Variant Cover by: Koi Pham
Issue #4 – Venom Island Variant Cover by: Kael Ngu
The Green Earth Trembles! The Hard Truth of The Captains Britain!
• Captain Britain must face the truth about her brother and choose her path forward as MI-13 and the agents of the crown become aware of her ascension.
• As the lighthouse grows, Apocalypse and Rictor must master the earth beneath their feet.

X-Men #3 & #4
Jonathan Hickman (W) • Leinil Francis Yu (A/C)
Issue #3 – Marvels 20th Variant Cover by: Alex Ross
Issue #3 – Venom Island Variant Cover by: Mike Mckone
Issue #4 – Venom Island Variant Cover by: Belen Ortega
Earth’s Most Powerful! Cyclops Storms the Savage Land!
• The most powerful heroes of the dominant species on the planet, the X-Men rise to protect the world against any threat.
• From a new foe in the Savage Land to an old nemesis’ surprising return…

Marauders #3 & #4
Gerry Duggan (W) • Michele Bandini (A/#3) & Lucas Werneck (A/#4)
Covers by: Russell Dauterman
Issue 3 – ­Variant Cover by: Jeehyung Lee
Salt Water & Hellfire! The New Black Bishop of The Hellfire Club!
• Sebastian Shaw recruits a new Black Bishop continuing with his machinations against the two Queens of the Hellfire Club!
• Meanwhile, Captain Kate and her Marauders wreak havoc on the high seas from the Atlantic to the Pacific in the name of the mutant cause!

New Mutants #3
Ed Brisson (W) • Flaviano (A)
Cover by: Rod Reis
The Future Comes Knocking!
• While the original New Mutants are off in space, the rest of the youth of Krakoa begin to make the future they want to live in.
• First up – Armor’s outreach party, seeking young mutants who have chosen not to come to Krakoa.

New Mutants #4
Jonathan Hickman (W) • Rod Reis (A/C)
The Explosive Return of Cannonball!
• The team has reached the Shi’ar Galaxy only to find the empire in turmoil!
 Deathbird returns and she won’t let Bobby and Sam get in the way of what she wants!

X-Force #3 & #4
Benjamin Percy (W) • Joshua Cassara (A)
Cover by: Dustin Weaver
The Best Defense… Target: All Enemies of Mutantkind!
• First, the new team strikes back against the humans who took one of their own.
• Then, with its orders established, the new X-Force hits the ground running, taking on deadly threats targeting mutantkind’s rightful place in the world…

Fallen Angels #3 & #4
Bryan Hill (W) • Szymon Kudranski (A)
Issue #3 – Cover by: Ashley Witter
Issue #4 – Cover by: David Nakayama
Apoth Approaches! Psylocke’s Past Threatens Her New Team!
• Psylocke’s past continues to haunt her as she molds her companions into a fighting force…
• But can they take on the children of Apoth?


randybear said...

Not really liking that cover to Excalibur. It's by Asrsr but the armor looks so bulky I dont like how it looks here. Just so busy and heavy

randybear said...

Forgot to mention I'm happy it looks like Kwannons hair will be brown. I wish her signature was instead of butterfly she got cherry blossoms like on that cover.

I guess Kwannon also adopted the pink aesthetic. The first cover and this one are pink heavy.

But it's okay Betsy gets to keep red white and blue 😪

Atomic Ton said...

Looking forward to reading these interesting push for Betsy and Psylocke. I just wondering how is Tini Howard going to challenge herself how to write such an important character. This kind of story really need to understand the comic book material of her tragic and triumph backstory of what made her great. It just feel weird for Marvel trying to push her too quickly into the role of Captain Britain. I understand we need to show our support but overall Marvel just simply dumping all of badass outfit and just gave us another unnecessary costume again. Really making each iterations less important that comes to each decisions.
You also forgot to post this variant. Guy please check this out.

Sad Puppets! said...

Longtime betsy fan here -- reads often but posts only occasionally. Just want to say that she looks STRONG AS HELL on that cover. Beautiful. Powerful. A real new step in her journey since the start. So excited.

Kikoken said...

Rictor and Apocalypse look a bit weirdly intimate in that cover lol.

Happy we now got 2 Psylocke solicits! But please take the flowers out of Betsy's hair....

FSaker said...

I think Betsy looks pretty cool in this cover! In fact, I must admit I'm liking most of the uniforms in this new era (even Jean's green dress isn't looking so bad now).

Anyway, how are you guys' expectations for this new time for the X-Men? I'm reading comments from people who are following HoX/PoX and almost everyone seems to be loving it - but it seems Hickman is making a lot of bold moves, which may scare some conservative X-fans. The idea of Xavier being able to resurrect any mutant who gets killed (...well, cloning their bodies and implanting their recorded consciousness into them) may be particularly controversial... but it does challenge the writers to find new ways to present twists as the old "one of the heroes dies in this issue" trick won't work now. Plus, it was a great excuse to rescue Goldballs, Tempus and Hope from editorial limbo (and Hope the "mutant messiah" is finally doing something useful to mutantkind).

I was confident that Hickman had the potential to make the X-Men fresh and groundbreaking again, but I'm surprised that he's being even bolder than I thought he would be. And honestly? I'm loving it.

randybear said...

My thoughts exactly Kiko. I swear if Tini makes them a couple this is going to read like some Tumblr fetish fanfiction

Alex said...

I really love that Storm cover. Jeans' costume still looks dated to me. I get that this reboot is pulling a lot of past nostalgia looks, but I wish they could've updated it like her X-Men Red look.

Beyond that I like Betsy's cover also. A knight in shining armor vs a dragon.

Kiki M. Ishola said...

Kewl they didn't forget the newest new mutants. Armor is looking badass and Jubilee should get a power upgrade any minute. Kwannon is a popular Asian only because she struts her meat raw. Karma and the rest choose modesty and class.

Was wondering when the MI-13 would show up. Pete Wisdom comes piping hot!

randybear said...

I hope as time goes on and To (inevitably and unfortunately) moves onto other projects that other artists streamline the design.

Lose the massive cape (a small cape similar to Lightning from FF13) lose the extra layer of material at the footing of her boots and lose the Wonder Woman skirt

Benjamin Hutton said...

I'm done. Hard pass on all of this.

That abomination of "Uncanny X-Men" was a highlight for both the characters?

I'm so done.

randybear said...

Storm definitely got some amazing covers this month. She looks amazing

Toffnut said...

" Kwannon is a popular Asian only because she struts her meat raw. Karma and the rest choose modesty and class."

I think there is a place for characters who are comfortable showing skin (Namor, Emma, Mystique etc). A big part of Kwannon's appeal is her sexuality and Marvel has even acknowledged this recently when Emma referred to Kwannon as "Miss Braddock's Sexy Side".

I have no qualms about what a character chooses to wear (or not to wear) as long as they are represented as owning their sexuality (Emma, in recent years, is a prime example of this). Hopefully Kwannon will be written and depicted in the same manner.

The perfect represntation of Psylocke for me was when Betsy was first part of x-force. Sure, she was wearing the Hand ninja-kini (initially), but she was also depicted as strong, resourceful and deep and she never came across as crass despite being sexy. I hope Kwannon has the same luck with her new run.

Unknown said...

These new X-Men books are getting expensive. Either they are $4.99 with unnecessary pages, or they are being published twice a month.

Hickman's vision for the X-Men contradicts everything that past material has put out. So either you like it because it's completely different, or you are unhappy because everything is being thrown out in the trash for new ideas. The X-Men are supposed to be a metaphor for marginalized people and that element is gone unfortunately.
Psylocke is the only person of colour who is leading a new X-Men book, which is sad really. All of the visible minority characters are playing supporting roles in the Hickman era.
It’s great to see Storm getting some fantastic covers this month, but she is still a supporting character who is also being written differently in the latest House of X issue.

@Toffnut I see where you are coming from. Some fans of Psylocke are too prudish.

Tobias Chatti said...

The people who read the 90s Psylocke-Elektra 2.0 forget it was Betsy in the driver's seat. Betsy was a fashion model and her personality is a tease like Emma Frost.

I anticipate Betsy to be revealing and sexy. She seduced lots of men in her spy years.

Japanese women aren't provocative by nature and their culture that's why is wrong to see Asian Psylocke remain kinky and unclothed. A kimono suit looks better on her than bandages of a mummy.

Readers are entitled to their ninja erotica but it doesn't do her justice.

FSaker said...

@Tobias Chatti, actually that's not entirely accurate. Some researchers point out that the kunoichi (female ninjas) often used seduction as a weapon and their outfits could be just as revealing as Psylocke's bathing suit, since they allegedly provided better mobility. In videogames, characters like SNK's Mai Shiranui or Tecmo's Kasumi do fit this profile.

Other than that, Japan is a country where porn actresses can reach popstar the level of a popstar (in fact, some pop idols go to the porn industry once they're considered too old to be a J-pop idol), and one of the most popular female singers in the 2000s was Koda Kumi, who had very provocative songs, music videos and album covers (though she toned it down after becoming a mother).

From what I know of Japanese culture, it's not so much that the women there aren't provocative, it's more that what they consider provocative is different (like the fetish involving women dressing and acting like schoolgirls, or how they behave in a more submissive way).

And let's not forget that 1990s Psylocke was and still is VERY popular in Japan, being featured in Capcom's video games (despite not even being featured in the Western animated series; she was even the only woman in the Marvel Super Heroes arcade game, while Scarlet Witch and She-Hulk only appeared turned into statues in Thanos's background), often getting figurines and cosplays, and so on.

That said, I personally DO prefer Psylocke to be properly covered (not really for modesty reasons, but because a uniform covering more of her body would also offer more protection against cuts, burns and so on); I just don't think that Kwannon keeping the bathing suit doesn't do justice to her culture at all. Then again, I couldn't care less about Kwannon.

Finn said...

It's great to see Kwannon getting a deserved backstory after all these years. Love her cover. And I wish Betsys outfit wasn't too masculine.

FSaker said...

@Unknown, you have a good point. The X-Men isolating themselves on Krakoa at first may seem to go against the metaphor for marginalized people.

But there are two things to consider: first, this does has a parallel with the real world if you consider the Jewish people and the nation of Israel. In both cases, the idea was to provide a persecuted group with a nation where they could have their identity and culture without fear of prejudice and death. And considering the number of times where the X-Men tried to promote integration between mutantkind and humankind and still had to deal with anti-mutant groups killing mutants while governments did nothing to stop these groups, I don't blame them for trying to keep some distance this time (and their embassies show that they didn't abandon the idea of eventually integrating both peoples).

Second, we still don't know if Hickman's idea is to show the nation of Krakoa as the RIGHT move. If his runs with both the Fantastic Four and the Avengers taught anything, is that superheroes will often take decisions that may seem right at the time, but that are later shown as wrong (Reed assembling a council with his alternate counterparts and eventually being betrayed, the Illuminatti destroying alternate Earths, the Avengers being more concerned with hunting down the Illuminatti than with coming out with a better solution to deal with the Incursions).

I do agree 100% with you on Storm's situation, though. It makes no sense for her to be a subordinate to Kitty. Hopefully she'll also have a role in the main X-book - HoX #5 does show that X and Cyclops acknowledge her as a leader figure.

(in fact, I also hope Betsy will occasionally show up in the main X-book - it's great that she has her own team, but she's still part of the X-Men and Marvel should never let the readers forget that)

Alex said...

It would be cool if Storms was Kates co leader or second in command. I've got no problem with other experienced X-Men leading teams with other, older members on the roster. Storms lead plenty of teams, so as Kate. Maybe Storm doesn't want to lead.

If Emma's funding them apparently, maybe she put the team together & chose her to lead. They've got history together & ended up mostly respecting each other in a way near the end of Whedon's Astonishing.

I'm wondering how long Hickman's stories/plot will go on from Marvel? They've had so many writers, some truly talented, a lot not so much, come in with huge plans for the X books. Whenever I see Marvel talk about how this or that will change the status quo forever we ultimately seem to revert back to how things where.

We had Morrisons run, then the X-Men establishing an island state in SF...Feels like Hickman's is repeating a bit of that & the only truly interesting thing I've found so far is Moira.

Psi-Girl said...

As a girl, I dislike the concept of “boob armor”; but at the same time I don’t think a heroine needs to forfeit her femininity, in order to be a badass. Women in armor can look like dudes, but a man with a feminine silhouette, like, God forbid! So, they’ll chop off your hair, hide/cover your body, ban the idea of makeup - all in pursuit of this (IMO, mistaken) notion of what a “strong woman” is. Even in Kwannon’s case: if your sexuality is a weapon in your arsenal, if that makes you feel powerful: I say, more power to you, sister! Knock’em dead! 👊 (Sorry for the small rant - I’m just sick and tired of men having a say in how women should look/do/be.)

Anyhow: I’d love to see a sleeker, more streamlined version of the CB armor. In some of these pics, if you remove Betsy’s head, it’s the figure of a man. The armor is a bit too bulky and clunky, not to mention “busy” visually. But it’s grown on me a lil bit, I have to say.

Rahsaan said...

@Fsaker, I’m totally for Krakoa as a marginalized person. I think integration was horrible for my people post emancipation as it led to the Black Codes and Jim Crow, which were just as terrible. Every time we started our own communities because we were not allowed into larger American society, we murdered, raped, bombed, lynched, castrated, etc. All literally and for no reason other than daring to build our own self-reliant churches, schools, banks, etc that would have helped us lessen the generational gap is a people with no
property, education, with PTSD. I seriously think had we been afforded our own sovereign nation, we would be so far better off as our communities were always better off when left alone. However, based on the fact that our communities were continually undermined by violence and de jure law, I am
not sure if whites America would have not started a war with us if we had a sovereign nation.

Krakoa is all about the allegory of marginalization if people are actually thinking about what it means to be marginalized and realizing that most allies really cannot put us first as they naturally will default to preservation of their place in the oppressor class.

I dig that Hickman is playing with the very real fact that diversity does not equal inclusion and integration equals assimilation.

Rahsaan said...

And assimilation equals death of a kind.

Kikoken said...

@toffnut Totally agree in every way!

Unknown said...

@FSaker Maybe integration wasn't working, but coexistence is possible.
It just seems weird that all mutants seem on board with this idea of Krakoa as a nation.
Where is the diversity of opinions in regards to all of the mutants coming from different places?
I do hope that there is more to this new era, and like your idea that maybe Xavier's plan is wrong, or that there is more to this new story than what is currently being told.

It's great that Storm is being recognized as a leader, it came up in the latest issue of House of X. But she deserves her own team, and a more significant role in this new era of the X-Men stories. Co-leader isn't good enough.

People on this site compare Betsy and Kwannon a lot, but where does Betsy stand in relation to Jean in this new era?

Tobias Chatti said...

@Fsaker Japanese men are in love with female neoteny. Girly females with crooked teeth, infantile faces, behavior and voices are super sexy and kawaii to Japanese men making the school girl traits popular on the island. It's a stretch to say Japanese men belong on the spectrum of pedophilia.

Kwannon is a naked hag based on Japanese trends and has to imitate Gogo Yubari's appearance to fit in. I know kunoichi used seduction but they also were used as prostitutes by male ninjas like Nyoirin and Matsuo used Kwannon. Younger male ninjas were also used as sex slaves by older men. The X-Men are a Western comic and Japanese views on women are negative and sexist so the story of Kwannon needs regulation and her costume some skin covering.

Tobias Chatti said...

@Rahsaan my fears on Krakoa isolation is the alienation of mutants from their humanity.

What if mutants using their powers without restrictions and responsibility become oppressors and humans the oppressed. The way Magneto spoke with arrogance to the ambassadors telling them the mutantkind is a new pantheon for humankind to worship makes the fear substantial.

The only X-Men with reservations against Xavier, Magneto and Moira's segregational policy will be Jean, Betsy, Beast, Storm, Nightcrawler and Nature Girl because they are the most empathetic and inclusive X-Men there are.

Jean is the mother figure or big sister for the X-Men and her human friends.

Betsy is pure and honest and suffers seeing schisms in humanity. She wants coexistence and universal love and peace. Sheltering and working with villains makes her blood boil. Imagine the discomfort of Betsy seeing Magneto, Sabretooth and Mystique enjoying amnesty on Krakoa.

Beast isn't a cold scientist, his work to bridge humans and mutants and help with his breakthroughs anyone in need shows it. He helped the Inhumans solve the Terrigen mist and find a place on earth.

Storm doesn't separate humans from mutants. In the past she helped with her weather powers her people in Africa to survive drought and they were humans. Storm was the goddess of the poor and service to humanity was her rule.

Nightcrawler is very religious and wants equality and peace. Krakoa doesn't fit his Christian belief system by shutting other people out and help mutants overthrow God on earth.

Nature Girl hates extremism and is peaceful and loves nature. Krakoa is an artificial island and Nature Girl feels it when something is unnatural. Xavier playing with life by reanimating and cloning dead X-Men should make her disgusted.

Xavier doesn't act himself being Nazi supremacist by sending the X-Men on suicide missions and resurrect them after. New Xavier is more like Amanda Waller of Task Force X than classic Xavier the headmaster of SFGY. Something's not right.

Rahsaan said...

@Tobias, I see your points but disagree. I don’t see isolation, forming your own sustainable society, and taking measures to ensure your people won’t be attacked by oppressors as extremism. Especially, when said oppressors continually are true to form with their attacks.

Rahsaan said...

Now if H. Sapiens Superior goes out of their way to wage war on H. Sapiens, that is another story. However, if they are minding their business and not expecting anything from the latter other than to be left alone without hostilities, I’m here for it. Also, Xavier sent his people on that mission because oppressors once again were doing what they do the most and planning an unwarranted attack on the oppressed.

Rahsaan said...

And most of all I appreciate that the mutants seemingly did not displace any other people in creating their society. We definitely cannot say the same for other peoples in real life.

Tobias Chatti said...

Rahsaan the hint of colonization is strong in your comment. Modern America is a melting pot of oppressed minorities because of the White Man's Burden by John Locke. And the problem with the Psy-Locke name being too white a burden for a Japanese woman. Pun heavily intended.

Politics with real social references is dangerous when it is used in comics. Hickman is delicate but somehow with a wrong turn and it goes off topic. Maybe a future writer twists Hickman's intentions like Fabian Nicieza messed up Betsy's Asian makeover by Chris Claremont. Then the issue won't be cultural appropriation but political views and social engineering of opposing perspectives.

New Xavier is acting out and is cruel to his X-Men. The new direction lacks the warmth of the family the X-Men symbolized. They used to be a school for gifted youngsters taking small steps to equality. Krakoa is very bold and the dream gets diluted in the house moving.

Humans and mutants will never sit on the same table. That doesn't allow Rightclops, Mystique and Magneto spread their guerilla activism to the X-Men. When Cyclops talked to the Fantastic Four inviting Franklin on Krakoa it seemed as if the X-Men changed into child warrior recruiters. I hope I misread his intentions.

FSaker said...

"New Xavier is acting out and is cruel to his X-Men"

Indeed. And there's a theory going around that X is either someone else pretending to be him to control mutantkind (with the Maker a.k.a. Ultimate-Reed being the #1 candidate due to both wearing helmets and Hickman having used the Maker during his Avengers run) or being controlled by an ill-intentioned party (Cassandra, Sublime, the Shadow King or - once again - the Maker).

The cult-ish aspect of the Krakoa residents is particularly suspicious. And I guess all of this is part of Hickman's plans, which is why I think it's too early to decide whether the X-Men are right or wrong in their actions. There are some suspicious aspects, but as Rahsaan pointed out, there's also plenty of justifications for their actions.

As for Cyclops's comments on Franklin, yeah, that was uncalled for. Then again, I loved him calling out the Fantastic Four on them judging what the X-Men are doing when the four of them never had to endure all the prejudice and hate the X-Men always had to deal with.

Psi-Girl said...

I’m waiting to see how House/Powers of X is going to pan out, right now there’s a lot I love and a lot I don’t.

Last issue w/ the whole resurrection thing, it bothered me a little. They may have their bodies and memories, but what of one’s soul? And it cheapens death (even more, right?) and the whole we’re a nation dealio, I dunno. I’d say HoX/PoX had a strong start like with Moira and all, but it’s getting a little iffy and contrived, w/ potential to go really wrong. 🤔

Rahsaan said...

@Tobias, Krakoa reminds me a lot of this concept (see link below) which I wish had really happened as integration was always code for assimilation. I do see yours, Psi Girl and FSaker’s points about the resurrection and pep rally, but the point of a mutant sovereign nation is still a great one for me as oppressors rarely ever just stop.

Tobias Chatti said...

Super ideas FSaker. The Maker is sticking out like a sore thumb. I love the Grant Morrison New X-Men with Cassandra Nova and Sublime with his U-Men so I want to be either of them. Sentient bacteria felling mutants for their survival and Xavier's miscarried evil twin sister are strong villains.

Krakoa is scary. In place of a dawn is the twilight zone of mutants. Mutants built their place to live and is good but it was simple when mutants lived with humans and the wall was invisible and hostility caused public movements.

Different stories could be written on religious fundamentalists, racist groups, right wing politicians, Darwinian fundamentalists, racist scientists with extinction agendas, mutant civil wars, mutant terrorism, mutant rights etc. Krakoa confines mutants in the borders of a nation and equates them with outsider nations like Atlantis, Wakanda, Tian and Latveria.

Mutants had classifications in the normal looking who passed for humans and the grotesque Morlocks of the sewers. Now Krakoa mutants look like hardcore elitists to the outside world and have suspicion for every human. Plus the confrontation between Eloi mutants and Morlocks is no more. One of the negatives of unification is losing layers of diversity for mutant species.

I named Betsy among the few X-Men who would object to New Xavier's plan because like Betsy I can't stomach villains working with the X-Men. Apocalypse, Magneto, Mystique, Sabretooth, the Evil Brotherhood of Mutants, Mr. Sinister, Proteus, Emplate, Selene besmirch the name of the X-Men to the global public and will taint their morals.

I never liked Bendis Cyclops or Bendis as a writer. He and Rosenberg are mudskipper writers. Cyclops in HoX and PoX reminds of the Emma/Magneto coalition and I'm not ok with it.

I'm also not comfortable in changing great villains into heroes. Villains are the cause for the birth of greatest heroes. Batman is a nobody without his Arkham villains so are the X-Men without theirs.

In the 90s Marvel started a saga to turn the White Queen good. It was new and bold but in the end it doesn't work. Emma is a spare wheel in the love triangle of Scott-Jean-Logan. The White Queen is best as a gray villain.

Tobias Chatti said...

Psi Girl the resurrection mechanic disturbs me. The fandom stands divided. Some think the reanimated X-Men are soulless clones and others the opposite on Hickman's comic physics explanation.

I read on a conversation a comparison between Betsy's OG body rebirth from Sapphire Styx Limbo and the Krakoa resurrections. An explanation is needed to clarify their differences.

Betsy was stranded inside of a host body after a body swap and the death of her biological white body to the Legacy Virus. Sapphire Styx pulled a vampire bite on Betsy's soul and absorbed her. Betsy was extracted from the host body and was eaten alive. Then Betsy as astral energy fell into the Limbo stomach of Sapphire Styx where she battled to survive digestion. Betsy broke out from the Limbo stomach and used its juice to rebuild her OG body exactly as it was before the ambush of Slaymaster.

The Krakoa process is different because the X-Men die and the souls depart. We don't know what kind of souls or energies Proteus and Hope put into the cloned bodies (gold balls of Goldballs). Betsy isn't a clone because her soul stuck to the land of the living and she used her mutant power to make a physical investment identical to her OG body.

Betsy's rebirth has self-awareness and personal battle. The Krakoa resurrections are similar to Frankenstein's experiment.

Rahsaan I read the article and there are similarities to the Krakoa nation. Assimilation of people of color in the South of rednecks is far fetched. Southerners are isolationists and crazy for tradition and believe in their convictions like Reverend Stryker. It's more possible for Black people to establish their confederate nation North of the U.S.A.

Kiki M. Ishola said...

A theory floats on the internet about what happened to Charles Xavier. I don't wanna take the fishbowl off.

I'll share the story in which Xavier made a deal with Fantomex to take over his body in order for Betsy to duplicate the World matrix where Fantomex grew up in a paradise version. Krakoa is a mutant paradise.

Professor X can be many people posing as him, he may be himself. On second thought a lot of X-Men don't act normal. Jean Grey has adopted her Marvelette clothes.

Anyway, who is this SAPPHIRE STYX? Why is she so important and keeps popping up? Morgan le Fay is going to harass Betsy. Sapphire Styx is dead fireworks. Betsy put her out. Has she done anything deadlier than sucking people dry and french kissing Wolverine? May be she has may be she don't. Will we find out? Sure, if her grudge against Betsy resurrects her.

randybear said...

I hope its revealed that she was mind controlled as well before Betsy showed up. I dont wanna believe that Matsuo was her true love hes beyond redemption. The idea that he switched out Kwannon's body and knew it wasnt really her soul/psyche but still proceeded with her as his own plaything meant he didnt care about her past her shell.

Rahsaan said...

Hey, @Kiki. How are you?

Glad you dug the Rogue fashion suggestions I shared that harken back to her better looks! Speaking of fashion, I was just wearing my cape while in Russia, and I don’t know why more people do love them. They are so majestic, which is why I love that Betsy has one once again like in her Outback days. Even her Lady Mandarin one looked fly though she was brainwashed. That being said, I would never wear mine to fight in, which is why I can see why people take issue with it. Then again, Marvel Girl is wearing a skirt to fight in. 😀

FSaker said...

@Tobias, yes, the resurrection mechanic disturbs me, too. While I was bothered with the way how Betsy was "returned" to her original appearance (as despite her remaking Sapphire Styx's body in a mollecular level, technically she's still in another person's body), we can at least be sure that the person inhabiting that body is really Betsy.

It's not clear if that's the case with the Krakoa resurrection process. Sure, the revived X-Men look like them and have all their memories - but can we say for sure it's really them? Or are they new individuals who were bred to replace them? Even if someone doesn't believe in souls, it's debatable if their life essences (whatever they are) are there.

That reminds me of Spurrier's X-Force run, when Betsy was having sex with Cable's clones. They were exact duplicates of Cable, they had all his memories (if I'm not mistaken, even the recent memories from a deceased clone would go to the next one's body)... but I don't think we can say that means she was having sex with Cable himself. In the end of the day, they were still different individuals.

Now, don't get me wrong, I still think Hickman is doing a fantastic job with HoX/PoX, his ideas are brilliant and this one is no exception. The thing is, we're talking about characters who readers have been relating with for decades, there is an emotional attachment - so it's complicated to assume people will easily accept them being replaced with clones (this would work perfectly with a group like the X-Statix). If he could just provide some explanation to make sure that these ARE the same individuals we've known all this time (like Tempus using her time powers to bring back their souls, or Hope being some sort of shaman capable of summoning lost souls), that would be all I need to fully accept this idea.

randybear said...

The whole "its saphire styx body" makes me laugh its just the Asian fans grasping to make the rest of us look like hyprocrites.

The issue is that it's never literally stated shes in someone else body it wasnt thoroughly concretely mentioned that's exactly what happened. Betsy said she subconsciously recreated her original body with styx POWER.

Sapphire wouldn't be dead if her body was still alive, hello people.

Besides the swap with Kwannon was overstated through the eyes ad nauseam the intent her is that it IS Betsy in her true body.

Any other implications are head canon or to troll.

X-Man said...

@Randybear that was always my impression as well. Betsy telepathically manipulated the soul powers to recreate her original body, not that she altered Sapphire's body into her own.

randybear said...

Yeah Betsy specifically mentions this at the end of MIM #4 to Jubilee it's not ever stated anywhere "I recreated sapphires body to resemble mine" no that's not stated anywhere.

The implication is that is Betsy's original body remade not anyone else's otherwise it would be stated as such ala the switch with Kwannon which was VERY CLEARLY stated (over stated) through the decades

I mean its really cute the asian fans think they have something to troll about but it always makes them look petty.

FSaker said...

Uh... if the comment about the "Asian fans" is directed at me, I guess I may have expressed myself badly. Personally, I like both of Betsy's bodies and don't have a preference for one over the other.

The only thing that annoyed me a little was that I had the impression that her current body was Styx's, only heavily remodeled to make it look exactly like Betsy's original one (but still being someone else's body). However, if I understood you guys' comments, her current body isn't Styx's, which would still exist in a way (...mollecular residues or something?) but whose essence would have been drained after she used all of its powers to recreate her own body, is that right?

If that's the case, well, then I take back my previous complaint and fully appreciate her current body. My concerns over X's "resurrection method" in Krakoa still remains, though.

randybear said...

FSaker, I dont hint or beat around the bush, I would acknowledge you directly.

I've seen more than a few posters already troll with the "sapphires body" lol god bless 'em they're trying

Rahsaan said...

@Fsaker, she is not in Sapphire’s body. Sapphire’s body blew apart. Elizabeth expressly said she used all the left over energy from all the souls to create a brand new body molecule by molecule through sheer force of will so she wouldn’t slip away like all the other trapped souls dead when she destroyed Sapphire’s mind and body. Had she not harnessed those energies, she would have evaporated like the rest of the souls did at that point.

All this time, you thought she was in Styx’s body? I’m sorry as that must have been disconcerting. Styx’s body was blown to smithereens. We discussed that at length here when the return of Betsy’s true body occurred. Also, Betsy states what happened on-panel. It really was not the best writing, but with a great end result. I’m actually hoping that Tini elaborates further on how exactly Betsy was able to harness those energies and build her new body from scratch. I would not be mad if it came a la Otherworld magic versus how Jim Zub wrote it. Granted, I’m not mad at Betsy using sheer willpower to harness all of the stolen energy, but it would be great if the people explanation was fleshed out some more.

Jaime Braz said...

Infinite eyerolls for body confusion. Back to the Sapphire Styx misunderstanding.

Jim Zub talking through Betsy explained what she did to Sapphire Styx:

''When Sapphire Styx exploded, my psychic form began to slip away. Instinctively, I used the soul power she left behind to create a new body, molecule by molecule.''

Betsy is not not not not not living in a remodeled Sapphire Styx body. Sapphire Styx was detonated by Betsy's psychoblast and the souls she kept prisoners along with Betsy's were released into the afterlife. However Betsy didn't want to die and used the residual power - not the body of Sapphire Styx - to cling to life. Betsy clearly states that Sapphire Styx left both physically and spiritually from earth.

No sane writer would free Betsy from an Asian body to pit her into another transformed Asian one. That would be total madness.

Not as mad as I am at Chris Claremont for being an enabler of the body swap continuation when he could go cold turkey in the 90s and save us the body swaps hysteria.

Jaime Braz said...

Thus Betsy's current body after her psychic duel with Sapphire Styx is identical in appearance and DNA to her biological prior to any modifications by Mojo, Spiral, the Hand, Crimson Dawn and James Braddock Jr. Betsy's white body is like a newborn of her past self that didn't had to age from infancy to adulthood.

Finn said...

Betsy used Sapphire Styx destroyed body molecules to re-create a body with her original body image. There's no away she could re-create a body without a previous one or from another body. Molecules can't be created from scratch they were remodeled from Sapphire's destroyed body. Otherwise it's scientifically impossible.

Finn said...

Her original body was killed a couple of times and it's way pass resurrection. She was not resurrected. She re-created her old body using a new one modeling molecule by molecule. Heck even before dying Sapphire's body looked like Betsy's original body.

FSaker said...

...Okay, now I know I definitely didn't pay enough attention to the explanation regarding her current body. Sorry for the confusion.

So she did use the molecules from Styx's body but NOT the body itself (that is, there wasn't a proper body when she used her powers, just what remained of it after the explosion), is that correct?

Marvel's stories can be confusing sometimes (and by "sometimes", I mean "always"). Nevertheless, thank you all for the explanations; now I can finally accept Betsy's current body as her own. Somehow, it even makes me consider Kwannon's return as less convoluted than I thought at first (since Betsy's consciousness was stored in Styx's body before she killed her, it wouldn't be impossible that Kwannon somehow transferred her own consciousness to the Asian body when she gave Betsy's full memories back before "dying"... damn, maybe in that weird Fraction's Sisterhood arc the Red Queen dominated Kwannon, not Betsy, and that's why there were two Psylockes fighting in her mind).

Anyway, I really messed up the discussions in this topic (and my intention wasn't even to discuss Betsy's situation, just the recent X-resurrections on Krakoa)... sorry for all the confusion!

Jaime Braz said...

@Finn the aspect of Betsy and Sapphire Styx is not natural but supernatural. Physics of molecular structure can't explain how Betsy recreated her birth body out of thin air.

Physics don't apply when Betsy uses psionic solidification via telekinesis, neither when Sapphire Styx steals the souls from corporeal beings with a touch nor when the Crimson Dawn pulled the soul of Kwannon back into her body.

Jim Zub borrowed the ''molecule'' term to explain how each spiritual energy of the stolen souls by Styx imitated a single molecule for Betsy to combine them into a new psionic construct that took the form of her biological body. Sapphire Styx had been long evaporated before Betsy managed to reincarnate.

Betsy's awakened second power, after the body swap due to cultural and mental shock, was psionic solidification. Betsy started creating psychic knives and weapons of every kind as the first step. The second step after her Omega level potential was unlocked was to recreate entire bodies. Exactly what happened when Betsy detonated Sapphire Styx. Betsy literally took the souls' overall power and converted it into psionic energy to transcend her ability of creating solid matter out of psi energy.

The souls were the fundamental amplification Betsy needed to achieve the naturally impossible. That is to say, make a new body out of spiritual energy. In other words, she forced the laws of physics intersect with the laws of spirits to survive the explosion.

You can disagree with that explanation and still believe Sapphire Styx has been remodeled until Sapphire Styx finds a way to return from the dead and avenge the destruction of her seductive body.

Regardless, Betsy's body consists of the souls of millions of dead people who gave their consent to Betsy to deliver them into the afterlife by destroying their prison which was Sapphire Styx. Betsy is the embodiment of All Hallows' Eve a.k.a. Halloween.

Jaime Braz said...

@FSaker you're right. Betsy used Sapphire Styx's residual power not body which was already blown up by Betsy during the release of the tortured souls into the afterlife.

Sapphire Styx managed to stay immortal and young by sponging off soul energy from people. Regular human energy sustained her for weeks. Once she found Betsy she hit the jackpot because Betsy's rich psychic energy would sustain her for years. Reminds you of how valuable mutant energy is for Mephisto in the Mephisto versus mini series.

Betsy turned the tables and stole back her psychic energy while borrowing the spiritual reserve Styx was accumulating for centuries feeding on innocent souls. That energy lingered after Sapphire's explosion, long enough for Betsy to use it and recreate her original body from scratch.

Rahsaan said...

Sapphire Styx is one creep I never hope to see again. I think it was a decent sendoff... Her destruction allowing Elizabeth to become the woman she always wanted to be. I really have no use for Madripoor’s cast of characters across the board.

FSaker said...

In other news, PoX #5 indicated Krakoa will have a council in charge... and Betsy isn't part of it. But I guess that's okay; she doesn't seem to enjoy politics (plus, field leaders like Cyclops and Wolverine won't be in the council either). It's a bit weird that Jean, Nightcrawler and Kitty will be there, though, as neither of them comes off as a leadership figure.

That said, there are only two issues left and Betsy hasn't appeared yet. Sure, we know she'll be leading the Excalibur team, but it would be nice to see her in HoX/PoX (come on, even GOLDBALLS appeared in them!).

Kiki M. Ishola said...

@Rahsaan you wore a cape in Russia? Dayumm! Capes are eclectic sharondas and choose who's worthy of them. Should've looked divine in it.

Betsy in cape and knight armor was an Otherworld Queen in the Outback. Of course everybody knows the Lady Mandarin suit was the knight armor leftovers more accurately tatters of Betsy's posh style.

My intuition says the Psylocke Asrar design will make a big comeback given the 60s Marvellette skirt is in fashion again. The off shoulders body suit of Betsy with Versailles lingerie imprint is an evergreen fashion statement.

Rogue's skunk stripe is the same fashion statement with Betsy's purple hair but in punk rock style. Green camo pants with knee high black boots and orange tank top is the chef's kiss for Rogue. Weight lifting gloves and no skin protection to make Rogue extra dangerous. I don't mind the men's headband to keep the hair out of her eyes.

Jubilee is the bubblegum princess of bright pastel colors. A yellow sleeveless jacket, a coral crop top, high waist jean shorts and dark blue ankle boots. No gloves to shoot plasma freely. Finished with pink Mod heart shaped glasses of yellow tint.

This way you keep the 90s nostalgia with an updated stylish look. Jim Lee was a tacky sexist who copy-pasted faces and body shapes of both sexes.

For Dazzler I choose an updated look of her white disco queen outfit with high collar and deep decolletage ending in a zipper slider with her starbrand symbol. Cut to disco shorts with thigh high white boots. And light blue with yellow war paint eye shadow on her eyelids.

Jaime Braz said...

The best way to include Betsy in the HoX/Pox event was at the introduction. Opening sequences of a flashback months prior to the event that showed Betsy reacquaint Professor Xavier with the founding X-Men.

I don't know about this Xavier. Why doesn't he show his face and how he can walk? Does Betsy know a secret that Hickman saves for the end? Any guess is good for nothing. The possibility Betsy's flowers are healing and Xavier used them to restore him to good health?

Jean has learned to think as a leader close to Scott. Nightcrawler and Shadowcat are not leader material. They are good supporting characters but not leaders. Nightcrawler should be part of Betsy's Excalibur team.

Marvel comics has tried multiple times to write Kitty as an X-Men leader and always ends in disappointment. Due to her need of Lockheed to elevate her is proof how forgettable she is. Her power is interesting and potent but her history and personality are vanilla blah. Leading me to support that Marauders should have had Storm as their leader.

Ry said...

The fallen angles cover is absolutely stunning, it's so beautiful (I'd probably like it more if I was a fan of the changes). I love the Excalibur cover as well, Betsy fighting a dragon solo is so badass. I love how Excalibur is really playing into the fantasy elements (At least by the covers so far) it's something we haven't seen a lot of in Marvel and it really embraces the mythos where the name Excalibur drives itself from. Although Betsy's hair looks pink to me.

FSaker said...

@Jaime, I hope you're right. While Hickman is ignoring many recent events from the X-books (and I honestly can't blame him), he's also acknowledging some events, and Betsy knowing about X's return and being in charge of watching his actions should definitely be considered important enough.

As for Xavier hiding his face, it's curious, indeed. On one hand, we could assume his plans demand that he's constantly wearing the Cerebro helmet - and the lower part of his face is visible (the last issue indicates he's back to his own body, or at least back to a cloned body based on his own rather than Fantomex's), so the X-Men could be recognizing him from it. On the other hand, some of his actions seem off, so this could be an impostor (or maybe Moira is controlling his body through the helmet).

Oh well, I'd love to see Betsy bringing a plot twist near the end. But I'll be glad if she just appears in the story.

Jaime Braz said...

@FSaker I suppose Hickman doesn't want to involve high level telepaths because something odd is happening to Professor Xavier. Betsy has a full mental map of Xavier's mind and knows every corner of it. Jean also has traced his mind over the years therefore Xavier, or whoever controls his body, needs the portable Cerebro to evade telepathic probes.

Jean has sensed that something was off in the first issue and she can't examine further because she died and was resurrected with pre-selected memories from Cerebro. Very convenient. And Betsy is wiser to get herself killed before she decodes Krakoa and Brian's tribulations.

The Xavier of the past wouldn't consider life a weapon of choice and respected the souls of the departed or else he would have resurrected Thunderbird and the secret Krakoa team of Vulcan years prior.

I wonder what happened to Fantomex's body but as with all Morrison creations he will fade into selective obscurity.