In the inaugural episode of CEREBRO, Connor Goldsmith and Marvel writer Tini Howard talk Betsy Braddock: once Psylocke, now Captain Britain! Tune in for a deep dive on Betsy's wild 44-year publication history, and Tini's work on Excalibur and X of Swords!
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“For so long, my life has been out of control. Chaos and serendipity, wrapped in insanity. I have suffered, I have lost. Not just my life, but my very soul, my self. But no more. Now I know who I am.” – Elizabeth ‘Betsy’ Braddock, daughter of Otherworld, mutant, telepath, telekinetic, defender of the realm and, above all, X-Man.
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Welcome to the stage Eating Disordia, Bootay Dysmorphia, Confidence Issues.
Uh-oh Betsy you've become a meme. Unwittinglee.
Most of the podcast was spent on disparaging Asian Psylocke as a 30-year-old mistake, and that current Betsy is ossum.
I've actually enjoyed listening to it, though I felt that Connor sometime talked too (but i guess it's his first episode, and hopefully he will let his invitees share more of their views in future broadcasts).
I found that giving Kwannon her own voice was an interesting approach. It's true that somehow Betsy did take from Kwannon and committed atrocities in her body...even though it wasn't her fault. It's no wonder that Kwannon might feel a bit of grudge. I never really saw it that way. So, I guess returning each woman to their former self was good in the end.
The main thing to see is whether Betsy can stand on her own two feet in her body, and become a strong character in the X-men franchise. Same for Kwannnon, though I think more people are familiar with her (physically) and it might be easier to associate with the woman ninja. I am looking forward to see how her personality develops.
I never realise how many people were so sensitive with a white woman inhabiting an Asian body... I (asian myself) never saw a problem with it, as it is a comic book and to me made Betsy more interesting in the 90s. But if I were that sensible about that issue, then it's true that Betsy (or the writers) really did 'steal' from Kwannon. Also I guess the reason why many people don't like Kwannon is because she's still Psylocke in a way, and they can't see Betsy evolve on her own as long as Kwannon/Psylocke is around. But, that will be up to the writers on making sure that Betsy is her own person.
Jokes aside comics are rad. Like a plastic surgery on a character becomes the substitute of said character is like next level. Like the Sentry recipe. Like OMG like.
I had a problem with Betsy in the body, but mostly in the same way I had with Rogue not being able to touch anyone, or Cyclops not controlling his blasts. It was done for ti long, and I hated that she was constantly taunted about it. It seemed extraordinary cruel.
Despite how some of these interviews sound, I don't believe many people wouldn't know she was STUCK inside someone else's body, because someone would cruelly taunt her with her original body on a weekly basis lol (I did agree that it didn't look good that she suddenly became a great physical fighter and dressing with less clothing the minute she became "asian". It had to much of a "Get Out" vibe for my taste, but I didn't blame the character for that).
I wanted Betsy in her original body because after everything she suffered through, I wanted her whole again.
I think a lot dislike Kwannon for how she was written in "Fallen Angels" to be honesty (as she seems much better in Hellions so far).
I actually liked Kwannon a lot when she was stuck inside Betsy's body. It showed how cool Betsy would look as a ninja in that form. I also thought Kwannon had a maturity about her that I really liked.
Sadly, In "Fallen Angels" I was on the brink of detesting her lol (and the bad taste still lingers). All she did was whine about Betsy (not Mojo, Spiral, or her lover that put all this into motion. The other victim. I hate victim blaming lol). I am decidedly not a fan of a whiny assassin lol.
I also think it left a bad taste in how she acquired the Psylocke name. I thought Betsy would give it to her, but she "took" it because she felt it was owed to her. She is the one who comes off entitled IMO in that book.
That is definitely going to make some fans like me upset.
Psylocke is Betsy's. It was a name she made her own after being brutalized by Mojo as a slave. She acquired that name in her original body. I honestly wish Kwannon had reclaimed Revanche (as I think that is a very cool name )
My other problem with Kwannon is that she is missing some key issues here. It was her friends who kidnapped and violated Betsy in order to revive Kwannon from a brain dead state. In other words an innocent woman was taken and life was turned upside down, just for the sake of what her lover thought was the benefit of Kwannon. That's messed up lol.
Last 2 things for me are, Betsy has imo already stood on her own two feet in her body with the X-Men for years, if anything, I dislike this because this is like "standing on Brian's feet. I rather Betsy had gotten the "Sword of Might" as that would fit her better imho and she could choose her own name.
As for Kwannon? I get that she is upset, but Betsy was literally dragged into this nonsense because of her. She also had the use of Betsy's body as well (not to mention she gained a portion of Betsy's psychic powers) and she knows Betsy is a huge victim in this.
We literally know Kwannon knows Betsy is a huge victim in this, because remember when she came on the scene as "Revanche" she thought she was the real Betsy Braddock and adopted that codename (revenge) not due to the injustices that "Kwannon" suffered, but due to the multiple injustices and violations that Betsy suffered (in fact she detested who she thought was "Kwannon" and blamed her back then. Little did she know Kwannon was really herself lol).
ironically, no one (besides the real Betsy perhaps) had more anger about the crimes that Betsy suffered more than Kwannon herself when she thought she was indeed the real Betsy Braddock lol. She shouldn't have forgot all that just because she knows she is the real Kwannon now. To me it's not Betsy who the writers need to make sure is her own person, it's Kwannon.
Jmo (sorry I wrote so much lol).
I know a lot of fans who only know her as Asian Betsy & some who've been critical of the white woman in an asian body wearing kimonos or qipao. What makes it worse is that she was developed for so long, whether you like the stories or not, in that body. I'm half asian & while I love the character I always did wish Marvel could've marketed one of their actual asian characters to prominence.
Seems like they continuously build Jubilee then fail her & it seemed like Surge or Hisako were going to be big & then they get dropped.
I'm kind of happy they're trying to make Kwannon work, even though I want her to get more of her own imagery. At the same time considering Marvels history with their Asian & ethnic characters in gen I can see her fading.
I think it's just going to take time for fans who only knew her in that body as the close range psychic ninja to get used to the change. Marvel did bungle it but I seriously doubt they're going to reverse it again or call her Psylocke again.
It also gives them a clean slate to work with for their eventual reboot into the MCU. Even if the X-Films get a decades worth of films like the Avengers, I don't see them touching anything about the swap. If they even use Betsy at all in the new films.
My hopes were not high for Betsy in the new era to begin with, and after I sift through the interview my hopes get crushed. I realize they don't know how to use Betsy. Betsy has many assets and a lot to her yet they focus on the superficial parts that make up her history.
Chris Claremont used her super model and socialite aspect to get all access as a spy only in flashbacks in X-treme X-Men. Her piloting abilities are never mentioned or displayed. Her interactions with organizations and secret societies other than Oriental mafias are swept under the rug.
An empowered woman is all about capabilities not shrinking into an insecure girl loathing herself for no apparent reason and having self-blame complex. I thought female writers shunned away from that. Obviously they will write Betsy as a single hero for she was always defined by her relationships and frankly that is not enough.
The Leah Williams approach leaves me in utter revulsion so I'm not thrilled for it to be considered canon for Betsy's evolution. It shouldn't be considered as character evolution but deconstruction and assassination. Even more because Betsy has lost so much in the process of existing in comics. She needs to be built up not taken down piece by piece. These insecurities destroy Betsy instead of making her relatable simply because Betsy was always confident even at times she didn't believe in herself.
I concur that Betsy is better off away from combat skills that remind of the race swap until her new iconography is set. To deny her her butterfly insignia and precognitive power for trademark purposes to produce more merchandise based on the body swapped ninja is foul.
The Jim Lee swimsuit can survive and thrive all on its own without butterflies and the tokenism that is an Asian Psylocke. I'm stressing this part because we've had many fictional characters of color that took the mantle of White heroes and felt hollow. Riri Williams as Iron Man, Amadeus Cho as the Hulk and the list goes on. Riri as Ironheart and Amadeus Cho as Brawn are much preferred given they are their customized identities.
Sway,
Jubilee,
Karma(lesbian character),
Nature Girl (disfigured character),
Xorn (disabled character),
Zorn (disabled character),
Wiz Kid (disabled character),
Sunfire (formerly disabled),
Sunpyre,
Armor,
Gorgon,
Silver Samurai,
Zero (disfigured character),
Surge,
Daken (bisexual character),
Kirika (Logan and Mariko daughter)
Loa,
Sprite,
Hindsight(gay character)
Those need spotlight and care! Development to end being cardboard Asians. This list is loooong!
Will Marvel give them the attention and love they deserve? Sticking with a coochie-cutter and call it diversity does nothing.
This podcast interview endears and humanizes Tini to me. She actually knows and likes Betsy, which I have doubted. Thankfully I was wrong. I was never a fan of the ninjafied Betsy save for some cool moments like X-Tinction Agenda, but did like the work that Remender, Yost, and Bun did with her to get her beyond that. And I am happy she and Kwannon are in their own bodies. I just need Excalibur to feel more like the character’s’ personalities and less DnD. I am hoping to see this evolution in Ten of Swords. And thank god, Tini knows how to pronounce Kwannon’s name!!
The Tini interview on Cerebro made me decide to give it another shot. Tini seems so delightful and she actually does love Betsy. I just am hoping this proves to be a slow burn. The last issue she seemed to be showing she knows relationships between Rogue and Betsy and Jubes and Betsy. What will be a real test is how she writes Doug and Betsy.
@Rahsaan,
I agree, the podcast made me see Tini in a better light. She obviously knows the character & hopefully after X of Swords things begin to move. This whole first arc was definitely done to get this event moving. I'm hoping when it's done we can actually get a book that feels representative of a team, possible a dysfunctional one, but a team nonetheless. Right now it still reads like a group of individuals who got thrown together for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I also enjoyed that Tini & the host dissected both Betsy & Kwannon & hopefully if they do a Kwannon podcast they do the same again.
I like the fact that they brought up that both characters have flaws if you go through the decades of writing. Neither character is perfect even though some fans want her to be. Even though Betsy isn't on a lot of the X of Swords key art I'm hoping she plays a good role in the books & displays more of her cunning side.
I struggle to see how Howard likes her, when she subscribes to the view that Betsy is a "bodysnatcher", and that Kwannon rightfully reclaims "what is hers". Kwannon had already been brain-dead before Matsu'o cut the deal with Spiral, and that the body swap gave her a chance at a new life.
BTW, I cackled at how she said that Betsy acts "privileged" and "white" about the whole ordeal. Apparently, promoting prejudices against Caucasians is the new politically correct thing to do?
Poetry big agree!! Betsy has always been the victim here in this situation. She essentially sacrificed her life at Siege Perilous for her friends and got her life twisted and turned upside and was brainwashed etc we know the old story
But NOW there's this narrative floating around from writers and editors that Betsy is now bad and it was all her fault that all these things happened to poor Kwannon and Kwannon was such a model citizen who never hurt a fly in her life until that mean white bitch Betsy came along and took it all away from her!
@randybear take my AMEN!
Betsy is the bodysnatching White witch to burn at the stake. Her stuff to be taken and handed to retcon macguffins.
The comic community is toxic with the mismanagement by fools and gets nastier with pc Karens spitting dumb verbiage.
Fool is anyone who blames Betsy for cultural appropriation when it was imposed on her. Read the actual story before the retcons to see who's to blame. Sh!!ty story. The Yellowface they bawl her out for was a plastic change on her face. Betsy was denied her identity for centuries so cut her some slack woke ppl.
Crimes against race goes both ways. It's not a White folks against colored folks thing. And if victims like Betsy are involved her accusers get filthier by yapping.
Should we go out on a rampage and kill every White because reparations and pent up anger for slavery? No that's not what humans do, it's what virtue signalling beasts do. The ones who'll give Betsy anorexia and an entry for Botched cause Britain once ruled the world.
I liked the fact that she and the interviewer know so much about Betsy's past and that Tini actually seems to have liked Betsy from before (and I liked that she actually confirmed that Betsy's hair is naturally/biologically purple now lol)
What I disliked was that it seemed more the interviewer that kept bringing up that this was a messed up thing that happened to both Betsy and Kwannon. I wanted to hear more of that from Tini herself.
My biggest fear is that they will use Betsy to unecesarrily prop up Kwannon. That type of stuff just backfires and makes a lot of people resent the character imo ( probably why I liked Kwannon first as Revanche and cautiously in Hellions so far, but really disliked her and her writing in "Fallen Angels").
I want it balanced. I want both to be victims in this story. I don't want "bad Betsy" stole Kwannon's body.
I don't want Tini to think Betsy needs to be punished because she is white and rich. That might be true, but she imo was a more heroic character than Kwannon who was a murdering assassin (one of the first times we see Kwannon is inside Betsy's body when she murdered a bunch of guards to the point her boss tells her the extremity of her killing was unnecessary. She killed them just to prove a point to him, not because her life was in danger or anything lol). While Betsy is definitely more likely to kill than other X-Men, I hope they recall that Kwannon isn't exactly Pollyanna either. I do agree that Betsy and Kwannon are both morally flexible people though. I hope that stays.
I also think Betsy has been manipulated and violated way to many times to still be the "fairy princess" we saw in the pink outfit way back when. She is not the same person, and I hope Tini doesn't think that. She wasn't "bored" with the Asian body and suddenly wanted to be a Knight, she finally was presented an option to regain her true appearance without strings attached and took it.
Betsy didn't "get" to have Kwannon's body, she was forcibly stuck in it the same way Kwannon was stuck in hers. If they do rehash the things Betsy did in Kwannon's body, I want them to equally bring up the victimization of Betsy on Kwannon's behalf.
I'm going to be very annoyed if they gloss over the fact it was Kwannon's buddies/lover who decided they could use/violate Betsy as they saw fit to wake Kwannon from a brain dead status. That's a huge part of the story.
I also would like for Kwannon to remember how she truly knows how victimized Betsy was like no one else could (beside Betsy herself), because when she was codenamed "Revanche" she thought that she was the real Betsy and that Betsy was the real Kwannon and I remember Kwannon/Revanche (still thinking she was really Betsy) being extremely anguished and pissed at all the tortures she thought she had faced when she believed herself to be real Betsy. Just because she knows now she wasn't the one who really suffered in those situations, she still knows Betsy did and should still remember the anger she felt as "Betsy".
Kwannon quite literally has had the unique ability to have been personally upset for the victimization of both women and to literally see the situation from both women's eyes (okay I guess one set was bionic but still lol), from a victimized Betsy's point of view, and later from her own real point of view when she realized she was actually the real Kwannon and not Betsy.
In other words, I don't want Kwannon to suddenly forget how upset she was (when she was "Revanche) at the atrocities she believed she suffered when she thought she was actually the real Betsy, she still knows the real Betsy suffered them and knows how angry it made her to the point she took a codename that basically meant "revenge" lol.
I hope this story ends with both of them teaming up and not a "dump on Betsy" thing.
Some of Tini's comments make me cautious. I am hoping for the best though lol.
I will reserve judgement for Tini Howard writing Betsy. Usually I let writers use all cards on their decks, down to the aces on their sleeves. I'm also curious to see how she uses Betsy in the upcoming X of Swords event. Namely Betsy's powers and the additional powers that come with the Amulet of Right. So far we've seen nothing.
I know Howard is best friends with Leah Williams, therefore the influence on the body of Betsy and her appearance issues. Let's hope we won't read a repeat of the Age of X-Man shenanigans.
Jaime, Betsy has flown several times in Excalibur due to the CB armor. Howard confirmed it only grants her flight not strength or forcefield like Brian.
Either the Amulet of Right is sexist or Tini Howard thinks she writes Betsy in Byron Bra-Dhok's remodeled suit.
I'm fine without her having all the CB suits powers. She's a telepath first and foremost and that should be her main ability.
I second that. What bugs me is the Amulet of Right reacts picky with Betsy. Betsy and Brian are twins so you would expect the Amulet to favor both. It welcomed Betsy as its new master and grants her one power. There has to be an explanation. Is it because she is female, mutant or had the Siege Perilous in her possession?
Hi, everyone. 👋🏿😀
I don’t think Tini was blaming Betsy. I think she was saying that Betsy’s awkwardness around Kwannon was tantamount to white guilt where some white people will be awkward when a person of color has been hurt by something that they benefited from through circumstances of the past, such as white people having access to things today due to bad things white people in the past did. I do agree that it was a bad analogy though as it was people of color who put Kwannon and Betsy in this whole predicament they were in. The only white person involved was Ricochet Rita. 😂
Anyway, Tina is giving me hope that she will be giving us a more interesting Betsy than she has thus far with the teasers she gave in the interview. And she seems to really love Kwannon too.
What I do wish is that someone would explain why Kwannon got to keep Betsy knife and butterfly. And why the hell she is wearing the suit of her Hand enemies.
Lastly, I really loved the tangent about how well Davis draws athletic men. Especially, Brian’s ass. 🍑 😂
I hope so Rahsaan. I want it balanced.
Kwannon as Revanche wanted revenge for what happened to Betsy (which is who she thought she was of course lol). I don't want that swept away lol.
I don't know why Kwannon kept the blade. When she was Revanche she preferred using a psychic sword and Betsy used the blade, now it's reversed. Although technically the same bodies I guess.
Betsy should still have the butterfly though. If only cause Kwannon complained about her and Betsy sharing butterfly connections in "Fallen Angels" lol. It would make sense to still see Betsy with the butterfly then since both of them have connections to it apparently.
Btw last Excalibur kinda confused me. In the the issue previously, Jaime explained that we were reading a false Betsy he created (not sure when it started) and she was killed at the end of the issue.
I don't get why that wasn't addressed in this latest issue? She was just alive and everyone acted like nothing happened.
I'm very confused lol.
Tini said what happened with that pocket universe wasn’t dropped and to stay tuned.
XMan it started and ended with #10. If you notice Betsy's costume was oddly drawn in that issue to indicate it wasn't prime 616 real Betsy. Her x symbol on her belt was centered and she had 2 x symbols on her shoulders thats only found in her Otherworld form not her standard earth armor. These small details escape most readers unless you're a try hard fan like me with no life lmao
Lol @Randybear thanks. Thanks as well @Rahsaan, I must have missed that comment from Tini. I was hoping this issue followed up on it.
Gotta agree with PoetryinMotion on essentially every point.
Everything about this is just awful. Howard's work on Psylocke has been nothing but dull, droll, and uninteresting trash. I can't wait until her time destroying Psylocke is over.
Don't @me.
@Somedude Howard and Williams are hired to make Betsy a D list. Alright draw away Betsy from karate and psychic knives but don't botch her attitude, don't steal her butterfly and cancel her badassery. WTF is that purple onion, WTH is with the smarmy writing.
I'm not interested to read how many calories she eats and how sorry she feels for have been used by the Hand and the times was victim. I never saw Betsy act scared and insecure. She had inner monologues yes and after punched things with her mind. You want her be a woman give her a decent costume and a life.
I've lost count of the passive aggressive hints Howard dropped at Betsy - mean girl, entitled, rich, White. What they do in meetings is find ways to reduce Betsy.
It's funny to me.. if you think about it how people hate on Betsy saying she's a "rich, white woman" but yet everyone simps for Emma Frost? Who flaunts her riches and is literally named "WHITE QUEEN" who sits on the council and pulls a lot of weight on Krakoa and has been a major influence on the XMen the last two decades, and has done HORRIBLE things before she officially joined GenX/XMen, yet... Betsy Braddock is the horrible one. She apparently is viewed (especially, sadly, by newer readers who weren't around for the original body swap story or know the full context of the story) as someone who stole a person of color's body/life/image and left her to die. Like, what in actual fuck. So much context removed from that.
I understand it's probably too complicated of a plot for Marvel to rehash or re-explain, but them just having characters say things on panel, like.. "I stole her body/she stole my body" as a mean of a quick/easy way to sum it up, is so damaging to Betsy, especially with how sensitive people are and want everything cancelled.
Chin up, luvs.
We are about to finally see Elizabeth and Douglas interact on panel again for the the first time in decades. I am choosing to hope that well be written well. It would be neat to see Doug interact with Kate too. And maybe we’ll finally find out what happened to Alison Double and Gabriel after Betsy was kidnapped from the château in the Alps. 😂
Flatlined when I read “Karen Braddock.” 😂
Tini might be deliberately trolling. Especially if she’s been reading this blog all along. 😂
I sound b*tch cause I've had enough of Betsy been told off. Read enough bad versions by writers I'm chewed up and damn shy. Disappointed in Claremont who wrote her bad in X-Treme and Exiles, Nicieza always sabotaging her, Kyle and Carey and Humphries take dump on her.
The crown saving grace what have you by Tini Howard is the relationship of Betsy with her brothers and Rogue and Jubilee and Rachel and Wisdom. This is my truth I won't lie give props to Howard for it.
I dunno why everyone hates Pete Wisdom. I could totally imagine him looking like Robert Pattison 😍
The guy doing the podcast should write Betsy he had a fantastic grasp of her history and the interesting events that make up her character.
Fairy Princess, White privilege, body issues, confidence issues, only sexy in the other body. Cannot believe how many red flags spilled out of her mouth during that interview and how utterly clueless she is.
Why the hell cant Betsy keep the butterfly and the knife if she wishes? they always had shared powers. So are we supposed to assume Betsy has also lost all of her martial arts training? If this is a pure reset Kwannon shouldn't have any powers at all.
Where on earth can they take Betsy's character now, after this whole we've fixed her, look how woke we are thing has run its course and people want Brian back as Captain Britain. How is her taking Brian's iconography any different to this "alleged" theft she did to Kwannon.
Yeah it doesn't sit well with me that the CB mantle was forced on her and all its duties that come with it. One ongoing theme with Betsy is she refused to be controlled or forced into situations after all the years of manipulations. She even told Brian the mantle was his and he could have it back when they first fought after Morgans spell.
I am glad she has redeemed herself as CB by not being beaten to near death and blinded after one issue lol Although her alternative version already died being hit by a missle 😅
I have been quite amazed at Connor Goldsmith's encyclopedic knowledge of the X-Men for a while now, but even his fantastic insights and commentary weren't enough to make me choke down this interview.
I am really disappointed in Tini Howard's treatment of Betsy Braddock, and listening to all the real life, cultural and social baggage she has saddled the character with, I don't have high hopes for the character's or Excalibur's survival as a monthly title.
Whenever you hear interviews from many of these young, female, creators who have begun to advance in nerd/geek spaces, the first thing you hear is how they have no connection, nor experience with the material they have been tasked to work on. "I never actually read any comics, nor do I know who these characters are, but they made me the head writer of this AAA comic"!
I really don't love how both Connor and Tini are basically "Karen Washing" poor Betsy and adding made up character traits and flaws where they never existed. Betsy has never been that woman...she has never been that 'privileged', wealthy, white snob woman. Even during Captain Britain, she was always a kind person and rather humble and meek.
I will give them that Betsy was a bit insecure when she joined the X-Men, but the Leah Williams treatment of her as a suicidal, body dysmorphic, self effacing wretch was sort of an abomination.
Kwannon wasn't trapped in Betsy's body because she was DEAD. The retcon as her being trapped inside the body was a real stretch. I know Tini Howard didn't write that, but she is basically taking it and running it into the opposing team's endzone.
Giving Betsy "White Guilt" is a complete stretch, and completely adds nothing to the character or the book. That both Tini and Connor are adding these totally made up layers to Betsy is kind of insulting. A total ass-pull that grafts modern day political propaganda onto a character that has just been reintroduced. I feel like Tini Howard has basically dirtied the character and I fear Betsy will ultimately fade and be dropped.
I don't hear her great 'love' for the character, what I hear is her foisting her own beliefs and values onto a character that didn't need it. Aside from all the racial and social sludge Tini Howard has dumped on Betsy, she has also made her quite bumbling, and lacking in any real agency or ability to command a team. Playing second fiddle to Apocalypse.
And don't even get me started on Betsy's powers and the expression of them. Tini has taken a very visually distinct set of powers, and now turned Betsy into a nondescript powerset. What exactly are her powers now? We haven't seen her really do anything outside of a few "squiggles" showing her powers. She used what appeared to be telekinesis when lifting Potted Plant Rogue out of a boat. Other than that, her power set has been turned into mush.
⬆️
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THAT!
@TFN AMEN!
I must admit I didn't listen to the podcast yet... and judging from some comments here, I'm not sure if I want to.
If Howard did jump on the "Betsy is guilty of the body swap" bandwagon, that's really messed up. It doesn't make any sense, as she never agreed to it in the first place, and we had both Matsuo and Spiral acknowledging that both Betsy and Kwannon were their victims.
I wish Hickman could write her; he's someone I feel would make her justice and give her proper spotlight and development. If the Excalibur book ends after X of Swords (and we know Marvel has been giving priority to shorter runs in recent years), I hope Betsy is moved to the X-Men book.
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