Cerebro: One of my favorite parts [in Excalibur #13] is where Betsy
is in the dungeon and she’s trying to focus her energy and the butterfly almost
appears. There’s been a lot of controversy about the butterfly.
Tini Howard: I’ve talked a lot about how this story is about loss and
failing and the stakes, starting from a bad place and being in a bad place. Betsy
split up with someone she lived with for a very long time and maybe when she
was heading out in a rush, she forgot some things that were really important to
her. It’s not an accident, it’s not a marketing thing. The feeling of loss you’re
experiencing when you see her without [the butterfly] is on purpose. That’s all
I’ll say about that.
Cerebro: I think it will come back eventually, and when it comes back
it will be for a reason. The fact that she doesn’t have [the butterfly] right
now is purely a character beat.
Tini Howard: Right. I think that I want people to feel that way. If you
were a Betsy fan and if you lived on Krakoa and were her friend, you’d go to her
and ask “Where is your butterfly? You’re not yourself without it.”
Cerebro: And she hasn’t quite been herself.
Tini Howard: Right. I love Betsy so much. I don’t put you guys through anything
that I wouldn’t like to go through myself. I’m taking these characters through journeys
I think it’s the right one, even if it’s not the easiest.
“For so long, my life has been out of control. Chaos and serendipity, wrapped in insanity. I have suffered, I have lost. Not just my life, but my very soul, my self. But no more. Now I know who I am.” – Elizabeth ‘Betsy’ Braddock, daughter of Otherworld, mutant, telepath, telekinetic, defender of the realm and, above all, X-Man.
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Oh she's so full of it
No need to be rude.
Anyways, the butterfly is coming back.
To be fair, Kwannon hasn't displayed the butterfly since fallen angels
I never really thought Kwannon had Betsy's butterfly in Fallen Angels. It seemed more like a TK construct. I dont think she had it as a psi signature unless I blocked it out lol.
@Psi-Girl That is incorrect. Kwannon only manifested the butterfly effect once in Rosenberg's Uncanny X-Men run. She never had the butterfly aura in Fallen Angels, except for the butterfly wings in the last issue. The guy from the Podcast even points out that Kwannon doesn't have the butterfly, only the knife.
Kwannon did manifest the butterfly when she was talking with sinister and her psi blade did cause butterflies to erupt from someone's head. She didn't have the full on signature, but they made a big deal of the butterfly being a part of her too in FA
Her psi blade caused butterflies to erupt from someone's head AND she did maifest one while talking with Sinister... She also had it in UXM if I'm not mistaken
That’s all on Bryan Hill. He was desperately trying to make Kwannon into 90s Betsy. For some context, Hill always used to say Betsy was one of his favorite X-Men growing up. He had a crush on Jim Lees Betsy. The minute Kwannon gets the Asian body back, here comes Hill claiming he always loved Kwannon which we all know is bullshit lmao. He just wanted to have the hot ninja chick from his childhood back so badly, he tried to make Kwannon into 90s Betsy as much as he could to the point where the completely ignored Kwannon’s 90s arc where she and Betsy learned to coexist with each other peacefully and even had a sister-like relationship. My guess is that he was pissed his precious Jim Lee Betsy was taken away from him, he tried to create a new one out of Kwannon and make Betsy seem like the bad guy.
Fortunately, Hill is out of the picture and any link between Kwannon and butterflies are now completely forgotten. Well. Except on variant covers which don’t really matter anyways.
I’ve listened to the podcast and it’s pretty obvious Tini knows Betsy fans want the butterfly back and it seems it’s all heading this way. Anyway. Good for her. And good riddance Bryan Hill.
Why wouldn’t this be apart of Tini’s original plan? Y’all make it seem like Excalibur was only ever meant to be 22 issues. Tini is playing the long game with Betsy. Y’all are still harping on butterfly comments made by Hill when he’s not even on the books anymore.
Does it mean that Marvel realized its mistake to rob Betsy of her agency and powers and it will do the right thing to return the butterfly to Betsy?
@Unknown when Dawn of X was officially announced with video walls and presentations Betsy was announced the new Captain Britain and Kwamon the new Psylocke. I thought Betsy would keep her self and her powers like she was in Uncanny X-Men after she got her body back.
I thought wrong because Marvel taken from Betsy all of that with the Dawn of X and give it to new Psylocke.
It's bad for a separate character to depend on original characters for it to keep existing in comics. I don't know how long Marvel can keep with Kwamnon as a parasite on Betsy's Psylocke and the fans of the X-Men ignore it.
Many readers have said Kwanon had an identity as Revanche and it's a mystery Marvel doesn't remember it if it's not marketing games to make money from a female body from Japan.
Before it was announced Kwanon to become new Psylocke she looked more like a ninja than now. She had the ninja hood and mask and ninja pants and two katana swords not one. The best thing Marvel did is leave Kwanon have natural black hair and eyes. But her eyes aren't always made look Asian.
"Why wouldn’t this be apart of Tini’s original plan? Y’all make it seem like Excalibur was only ever meant to be 22 issues. Tini is playing the long game with Betsy. Y’all are still harping on butterfly comments made by Hill when he’s not even on the books anymore."
I hope that turns out to be the truth. Maybe Tini intends to have a really long journey for Betsy, and we're still experiencing the (really) bad side of the journey, before she gets up, overcomes her failures and becomes the amazing and admired hero we want her to be.
I can appreciate long-term plans; if that's the case, I just hope the bad part of the journey is over and this new arc with her fellows looking for her and the apparent trial she'll endure represents the beginning of the positive part. It's just frustrating that XoS was still a bad part; sure, her reveal on the stained glass as the true Captain Britain despite Saturnyne's wishes is nice, but her pathetic demise before that and the fact she never returned for the final battle still feel quite bad.
I really liked that hooded version of the hand outfit she wore in Uncanny. It appeared more "ninja like" and wasn't a complete copy and paste of the hand outfit. I think readers would be less confused on who is who (if they read the damn comics) or if Marvel didn't make Kwannon look exactly as Betsy did in the hand outfit for decades. I hope they at least give her a unique spin on the hand outfit at some point
They're giving Betsy the butterfly back, and hopefully Kwannon can move on and become her own character, because tbh they're writing her quite well in Hellions and haven't mentioned Betsy at all in that book.
Agreed. Im glad they haven't mentioned Betsy at all in Helli9ns and hope it stays that way.
Also light spoilers this weeks Hellions mentions plots from FA such as Apoth and Kwannons daughter both of which I thought were swept under the rug.
I like the idea of Kwannon being this tragic parent its a nice way to further distant herself from Betsy as far as background and motives go. Plus they've made an effort to color her hair completely black not even a hue of purple in her hair. That with apparently the butterfly returning is making me feel so much about about Marvel and Betsy.
Yeah pretty much what you said! Thats essentially what I knew they were doing when BHill slipped in an interview saying he always loved Psylocke growing up and was excited to write her in regards to Kwannon. Like uhhh different characters dude but clearly the implication or mandate was "just write her as 90s Psylocke"
I digress im excited about the butterfly coming back and the fact Marvel is at least not Kwannon have purple hair. She can keep the psyknife and thong IMO.
Its obvious that Marvel want to make money out of the two versions of Psylocke.
They keep Kwannon as the sexy asian ninja for media, like games and stuff.
And they gave british Betsy fans the british body back.
Fine.
The mistake is that as CB Betsy is not herself, she has a shield and a sword like a knight so is not what she used to be, but she isnt like Brian Captain Britain. The thing is, I dont like Betsy as CB.
She shoud have kept the codename, butterfly effect, the fighting skill, just in ther British body.
Kwannon should be Revanche with lower level telepathy, katanas and more ninjaish costume.
But what they did is a mesh, Kwannon should be suffering an identity crisis, not Betsy, or at least Betsy shouldnt be the only one.
Also she isnt badass like CB, she still has to have a remarkable scene as Captain Britain.
randybear I think the same. I find it weird she wears a suit that reminds her of the Hand and her injury. If her accident is still canon. Her origins and powers are a mess. I wish she wasn't psychic at all. There are so many of them.
Tobias i agree it makes zero sense why she would wear that outfit. Wasnt the hand a rival of the Yakuza? Lol unless it was retconned that she was Yakuza?
Also BHill drilled it over and over how much Kwannon hated Betsy and being "reminded of her" yet she takes the codename and costume. Wtf? If its a marketing strategy then at least make it make sense. They did such a poor job of explaining her adopting of Betsys IDENTITY "Well she took her identity first!!" Is so stupid because Psylocke was her codename before becoming a ninja and she never claimed to be Kwannon nor did she take over any personal aspect of Kwannons life (aside from being stuck in her body)
Anyway don't wanna open this can of worms again but it's just dumb and should've been more organically explained as opposed to making Kwannon sound spiteful and immature regarding the issue
They treat Kwannon as if shes the only xman to ever experience tragedy 🙄
This site has become so toxic. It's like a MAGA rally.
Bye!
@Unknown I listened. Till I see the butterfly sit on Betsy's face and glow like in the past I'm not a believer of a single word. And Betsy is not a mean rich white girl.
They're full of it like Black heroes will shine here there and everywhere. XoS had Storm dance with Death and drinking Manhattans. Cecilia gave Apocalypse Xanax and used her powers zero times. Synch and Darwin are locked in a time closet and Bishop stands on a ship waiting. OK Bishop is Australian Aboriginal like Manifold but Marvel don't know so don't tell a soul. And Isca the hold-my-beer-to-change-sides was written bad.
Trump is unrelated to Marvel losing its head and Trump doesn't give a flying ish if Black heroes and white women like Betsy have a hard time by bad editors and writers. MAGA grabs 'em by the you-know-what so drop the toxicity cry wolf Unknown. Spitting false accusations against admins and followers of a site for non existent racism under anonymity is easy and lily livered.
Betsy the real and veteran Psylocke broke as if she was a porcelain imitation from a China Town pawn shop. If that is you want I go clap clap but most of us stand with Betsy and go boo. An enemy of Betsy's likes to see her suffer and lose what she has to wannabes.
Fans rooting for Betsy to be Psylocke and Kwannon to be Revanche do Revanche a solid cause the way she is a coolie meme is offensive to Asian consumers.
End of rant and plz don't bring MAGA bull and political ish cause it's lame and weak sauce AF.
how the hell kwannon is now a pilot (like betsy) and again, knows an old villain, cameron hodge...
I thought they same while reading the book. Hill established that Kwannon was aware of everything Betsy did while she was in Kwannon's body. Maybe she learned how to pilot a plane by watching Betsy doing it? Betsy fought Hodge once during the X-tiction Agenda, but Kwannon was in Betsy's body back then. Maybe Kwannon had access to Betsy's memories when Betsy was in the Asian body?
we shouldn't try to rationalize it or justify it, it's just bad writing and/or willingness to make kwanon pass as Psylocke.
Yes, you're probably right. :)
@nicce + @Unknown Hill and Wells make up things.
Betsy took back the half of her power that Kwannon stole after Kwamon died and never left a bug of her inside Betsy. She has memories and abilities only Betsy has.
I'm afraid they started to erase Betsy as the original Psylocke.
Betsy had connections with Havok, the Marauders and Mister Sinister.
The time she joined the X-Men as new member in the first run of Claremont.
Betsy uncovered Mister Sinister killed the Morlocks using the Marauders as she poked Sabretooth in his mind.
Wild Child is another connection to Sabretooth that connects to Betsy and her nemesis Sabretooth.
Betsy was a pilot and she met Cameron Hodge in extinction agenda when she was fresh transformed to Lady Mandarin.
The skills and memories are from Betsy.
But why Betsy forgot the martial skills? Is it bias against Betsy?
@randybear the writers confuse the body swap more. They should be separating them but they replace Betsy with Kwamon. Someday Betsy won't be remembered to be the first Psylocke at all. Kwanmon will have assimilated the talennts of Betsy and her character.
@nicce agreed! Trying to rationalize this sort of stuff is just going to drive the person crazy. We just have to approach the choices logically and from the editorial viewpoint. Trying to understand a fictional characters motives etc never works.
I hate arguing with people on Twitter because they use arguments from the characters stand point as opposed to the logical happenings behind the scenes of the comics
Absolutely, poor research on character backstories combined with marketing-based decisiones are the most logical explanations for what's wrong with comics these days. And while listening to the interview, I also realized how much impact the writers' political views have on their work. Tini (and also Leah) obviously views every character from a contemporary feminist perspective. A good example was when Betsy all of a sudden told the Blob she had an eating disorder and thinks she was ugly. Well ... that must have been the reason why she chose to rebuild this "ugly" body molecule by molecule when she had the chance.
Lol TIni, the backlash must'a been massive enough, that Marvel had to change plans.
You can "KNOW" a character, still treat them badly, and still not know how to write them.
A Telepath may be able to read your mind, but if they can't scrap, you're still gonna beat 'em.
Welp, looks like we will be getting a Betsy X Saturnyne ship'! I hate this, because I was hoping that Warren (Angel) and Betsy would rekindle their romance.
R.I.P Wetsy
No joke, I am ready for Tini Howard to be banished to Amenth. Your favorite wine Aunty is destroying Betsy stainedglass piece by piece. Shame on Connor Goldsmith for co-signing this effery!
I can see it happen in 3..2..1 and Betsy will come out as a roaring lesbian.
Made sense for Kate and Xi'an and Illyana and Raven and Irene and Cecily and Bling and Prodigy and I can keep going.
It will be Stonewallgate all over again. Iceman still reels from the blow.
PREEEEEEACH! Hear my AMEN!
D.E.L.I.B.E.R.A.T.E.L.Y.
Color erasure exists in history. Welcome to the 21st century where white erasure is invented. Don't hold punches stay true.
Yeah my issue with Betsy being bisexual is it came out of NOWHERE. Humphries just did it just for the shit of it. It wasn't organic it wasn't natural it was just one panel to the next shes kissing Cluster.
Betsy never showed any indication of being bi or lesbian ever compared to the likes of Rachel, Kitty, Magik, Storm, Yukio, Iceman etc those made sense and we saw them coming.
If anything I consider Betsy pansexual not fill on bisexuality. She hated Cluster and only became intimate with her when she finally realized she had the good brain of Fantomex 3 brains.
She immediately was just like "oh youre the good one youre the brain that i fell for" it wasnt like cl7ster showed up and Betsy was like "oh im bi now" it was an emotional connection.
Now you see all these stans on twitter demanding Marvel put Betsy in a same sex relationship. Like the pressure is insane. So im sure we will get some ham fisted relationship soon that will be PERFECT no drama etc because gay relationships are perfect apparently lol
And there was a hint in the info pages where it says the majestrox and CB are "forever bound" and CB serves her.
So now Betsy going to he a slave cuck who worships Saturyne who basically hated Betsy all Excalibur and wanted her nowhere near the title but the stans want them together SO bad
I like Tini as a person. Whenever I hear her in interviews, I enjoy her. And then want to have renewed faith in her book. She really does seem to know Betsy as a whole not just the ninja stuff and she knows Saturnyne, so hoping the upcoming stuff gels more. She is clearly excited to write her. I’m gonna give her more time.
I do agree with her that Betsy is boring when she is presented as a dues ex machina which many people enjoy, but I do wish we would start seeing some of the confidence and wit again. She does explain why Betsy seems insecure and out of sorts. She also addresses some really interesting plot points about how Betsy was treated by the X-Men when she first arrived and how she had to prove herself and how this has been a recurring theme in her life that affects her behavior and outlook. As a reader since Mutant Massacre, I think that going back to those interactions is something that could be interesting when exploring who she is. The X-Men were not very nice or welcoming to her based on their preconceived notions of who she was.
We have Britannia from the new UK group Union, having a better costume than Captain Britain.
If I imagine her with lavender hair and having a psychic sword/knife I think it could be a nice design for Betsy.
Ugh, I hate Marvel.
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Britannia’s boob window is completely unnecessary and her exposed arms are not practical. Betsy is smart to wear armor. Maybe her uniform can be made leas busy than it currently is, but I actually think Britannia’s look is pretty lazily designed.
@Rahsaan, I agree.
I like the armor. But maybe that CB uniform Betsy wore in the UXF Otherworld arc would please more people? That would fit more with the X-Men, but on the other hand, that'd also go against the D&D vibe Howard uses in Excalibur.
No. That original Betsy CB uniform is dated. I don’t hate the current CB uniform, but depending on artists it can be too busy. To draws it well though.
Rahsaan if the new CB uni loses the weird apron skirt and becomes less heavy and busy it's fine. I like Betsy to wear something like Sojourner Mullein's uni painted in the Union flag.
I think her OG CB look could work if updated just like how every super hero has their classic looks frequently updated to appear more modern.
After all Asrar based the Disassembled look on her CB outfit her borrowed the same look but tweaked the colors and removed several uneeded details (like the weird leg scarfs and puffy arm sleeves"
Essentially just color her Asrar design with the union jack colors and give her the helmet to wear occasionally (NO cape) and it would be awesome
How much do you want to bet that if they make a new video game or a fighting game of marvel and Psylocke is represented that it would not only have the ninja but she will also have the telekinetic sword and the psychic butterfly signature just as always
Nah they don't care about the butterfly. The psychic knife looks cooler to high testosterone geeks so they'll stick to it.
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