but it kinda looks like Betsy is using her TK to fly from the psychic specs coming from her head & not CB powers for flight? (I obviously could be wrong)
Yeah she's definitely using TK here. She's not wearing the CB suit.
Also no butterfly ughh funny how they quickly show Kwannon always use it in previews and covers but Betsy barely gets to show it off if at all at this point. I don't understand why Thorne was vague about the butterfly if it's not gone then why not just say so?
I already have the series pre ordered and added to my LCS pull list, I'm just going to he disappointed if he goes the TH route and indicates she doesn't need it anymore. I've seen his fan arts depicting her butterfly but this could very well be an editorial mandate.
I pray that Thorne has not removed the butterfly power signature. It’s still so odd that Marvel refuses to give Kwannon her own unique power signature and colors.
As for X-Factor, I am ecstatic to see Dr. Reyes reporting for duty! I hope she finally gets to fully shine as she is one of the few characters created around that time in the late 90s that actually felt authentic and who I rooted for.
Unfortunately @Rahsaan i don't think its that odd, while they tried to tell a "deep" story about two women who lost their bodies/identities at points,
TPTB also simultaneously ironically also seem to view them as just bodies themselves and think we fans also are clueless enough to do the same.
I think tptb believe that fans just want an Asian woman with a butterfly effect, psychic blades, is a ninja, and uses the codename Psylocke.
They haven't gotten its Betsy the person/character we care about, no matter the body she is in. We certainly never wanted to see her stripped of everything that made her who she is, including her personality.
We fans seem to realize more than them that its what is on the inside that counts, Betsy's personality should have never changed (although thankfully she was great in Dissasembled) & Kwannon shouldn't want all the things people would associate with Betsy & while also claiming to want her own identity.
Hopefully these new stories will have Kwannon truly becoming her own person, & Betsy getting that edge and fire back.
I do think that is why they insist with the nonsense with Kwannon though. She needs a new power signature and codename asap lol.
@Randybear I hope she retains the Butterfly. I do believe she used it a lot in that series she was just in (I forgot the name, was it Unlimited Comics?), but she was CB however was written much more in character vs when Howard wrote her, and was using the butterfly.
Time will tell how this goes guys :) crossing fingers.
It's over for Betsy. The butterfly is gone and I don't think it's coming back this time. And Betsy has gone the way of Iceman and Ric/Shatterstar. She's just a gay character now and all I see are people asking about she and Rachel.
Meanwhile Kwannon is able to function on a high level albeit in a relationship with Greycrow.
Question: by "claimed the butterfly", do you mean that Kwannon explicitly says on-panel that the butterfly is now hers, or was she just shown using the psychic butterfly? If it's the latter, while it's frustrating that she's using yet another thing that she was never associated with before, it wouldn't mean that Betsy lost the butterfly; both women could have it (even though it would look repetitive).
Anyway, about her being "just a gay character now", that could be dangerous, yes, but Geoffrey Thorne has repeatedly stated that her relationship with Rachel won't be a major focus on either her characterization or Rachel's on X-Force, so I'm trusting him.
But it is kinda sad how many of Marvel's writers seem to have a hard time writing gay characters with personalities and personal plots that go beyond their sexual orientation. I remember even Marjorie Liu giving Northstar and his husband quite shallow representations in her Astonishing X-Men run - which was shocking to me, because she's the same writer that gave some much needed depth to X-23 as a character and I think she's a great writer. As for Shatterstar and Rictor, to be fair, I did enjoy what Peter David did to them (and Rob Liefeld barely gave them any actual personality besides "generic 1990s badass" back in the day, so in the end Rictor and Shatterstar today are still much better characters than they were before coming out of the closet).
I feel like people have been smug about this saying as usual "oh you're worried for nothing. It'll be just like Excalibur and make a come back!" Yeah becuase we let them know or else it would have never come back.
People are more interested in if she is still with Rachel than anything else at this point.
@Nichelle, good question. While some X-Men characters have become Avengers in recent years, it's not common; however, now that she's Captain Britain (...that is, assuming she didn't lose the mantle before the upcoming X-Force run) and if Marvel is indeed giving all her usual traits to Kwannon to try to fool the casual audience into thinking Kwannon is the same "Ninjalocke" we've seen since the 1990s (she already has the psychic knife, her hair is often colored as dark purple instead of black, and apparently now she also has the psychic butterfly signature), then yes, it would make more sense to send Betsy to the Avengers than to the X-Men.
I could see her joining a X-Men flagship title if somehow she and Kwannon reverse their roles and Kwannon moves to a satellite book (I actually think Kwannon would make much more sense being in X-Force or X-Factor than she does in a major X-Men team - being in a satellite book would make it easier to develop her as her own character instead of reducing her as "the new Ninjalocke"). But that's just my opinion.
Don't get me wrong; I don't think you're worried for nothing. All I'm saying is that it is possible that both Betsy and Kwannon will have the butterfly signature from now on - which is still a problem, yes, because it was supposed to belong to Betsy only.
That said, ever since that Madripoor story ended up with Betsy making a new body modeled after her original one back and included that fateful scene with Kwannon's Asian body turning out to be alive (when Sapphire Styx supposedly killed it by draining its life force), I knew there was a considerable risk that Marvel would try to push Kwannon after the "body unswap" as a way to have their cake and eat it. Sadly, that's exactly what they did (going the easy way of using her as the new "Ninjalocke" rather than turning her into her own character), and sadly the general audience seems to be satisfied with her the way she is. Of course, we can - and we should! - express our dissatisfaction with most of Betsy's traits being lazily transferred to Kwannon just so that Marvel can keep a "Ninjalocke" around, but I don't think they'll change that just because Betsy's fans are complaining - at least not if the majority of the people reading the new X-books approves or doesn't mind what Marvel is doing regarding these two characters.
I think if fans are vocal TPTB definitely listen, those are still potential sales lost if people voice disappointment.
Vs having fans of both characters happy and potentially even more sales.
Fans were vocal enough imho that we now have Betsy in a new sleek uniform, a new book, & a new writer. We were able to get the butterfly back before, so if its gone again, we just try to do it again
I'd say us being stubborn accomplished quite a bit. And it can't be just because of Howard's writing they believe sales were down, because again look at everything they changed I mentioned above, not just the writer.
They want to hear us be like "oh I think its gone and never coming back". But I think pushback can help.
I will always let them know I'm displeased and would like it addressed and fixed lol.
But let's see what is actually written for Betsy first I guess.
@X-Man, I do agree with you that Marvel's stance regarding "Ninjalocke" seems quite short-sighted. They're betting on the appeal that "Ninjalocke" has had with readers for more than three decades, while Betsy may be looking "uninteresting" and "unworthy" of keeping her signature characteristics (the purple hair, the psychic butterfly, etc.) due to being featured in three X-books in a row that did very poorly in sales.
They don't seem to be considering that 1: Betsy's book's bad numbers had less to do with the character herself and more to do with them insisting on keeping the same writer in charge of her (apparently they considered that the problem was in the character, not in the writer, despite said writer not having any other Marvel run to show the readers liked her work), and 2: as far as I know, Kwannon's first X-book as the new Psylocke (Fallen Angels) did even worse than Betsy's both in sales and critical reception, showing that having a "Ninjalocke" around doesn't guarantee success (which they should already know from some poor runs that Ninja Betsy was a part of throughout her time in Kwannon's body). Hellions did much better, yes - and that had to do with the creative team delivering good stories (let's face it, Nanny and Empath aren't exactly A-list characters, and if anyone thinks that the book did well due to having Psylocke, I already said that there are several instances of poorly received comic book runs featuring her in the past).
So, yeah, the problem with their stance is that if whatever book with "Ninjalocke" fails to capture the readers, they won't even have the character's fans to keep a minimal support. As much as many people here hated TH's Excalibur, Knights of X and BB:CB, I know that some people here still kept buying (or at least following) the stories because Betsy is there. Kwannon doesn't seem to have built a fanbase herself since her return, due to her being presented as "the current Ninjalocke" rather than her own character, so whenever she lands in a badly received X-book (and it WILL happen, because it has happened to EVERY X-Man at some point), let's hope Marvel won't expect people to consume the book because she'll be in it. Because that won't happen.
I'm afraid I'm not as optimistic as you are, unfortunately, as many people there do seem to reduce "Psylocke" to her visual aspects (again: purple hair, ninja skills, psychic knife and butterfly) rather than her actual identity and background (I remember reading a comment quite recently about some artists having to be informed by FANS that the current Psylocke doesn't have purple hair, and it wouldn't surprise me if some of them aren't even aware that the current Psylocke is NOT Betsy Braddock - that is, assuming that they know that "Betsy Braddock" is the actual name from the 1990s Psylocke or that she wasn't an Asian woman since her first appearance). That said, I DO hope your optimism is well-founded and that things will get better for her (as a character) and for us (as readers who love her as a character). Thorne does seem to have a much better grasp on her than Howard did, so that's a good start, I guess.
@Fsaker your fine. I'm not sure its as much optimistic, cause we definitely been burned before, but I'm more hopeful I would say.
I definitely get your frustration and fears, I just want to see how the initial first issues are and go from there.
I like that the writer listens and has actually talked a lot and addresses things vs how it seemed at times Howard just dismissed a lot of us.
To be honest after Howard, I thought Betsy was going to vanish, so was very glad to see that wasn't the case & is actually in X-Force
(which is prob a group as far from being Captain Britainlike as possible lol & also a book she was very well written in before).
I do hate that TPTB don't get the point of the women's stories they were trying to tell though.
Your telling a story about losing identity & the struggles of that, while also taking their identities from them while attempting to tell those stories, talking about missing the point lol.
It is very sad they don't see how they are again looking at these two as bodies and not women.
Kwannon should not want all these things associated with Betsy like her psychic signature, her signature colors, and codename.
Imo it is an insult to both Betsy and herself.
But hopefully this new book surprises us all and will deliver.
Brevoort and co do all in their power to state Revanche is the new Betsy you like it or not shut up and there's nothing you can do. I'll be not surprised if Captain Kettle makes a comeback and Betsy is kept shackled in Bikini Coward's larping prison with the X-Force new costume act as bait for a fresh start after four years of pure captain vomit.
We need 2 be optimistic...I understand you're concern but it Betsy in other media .. I also do wish ... Betsy was in da flagship title maybe uncanny becuz her friends are there or aveneger... But this a new era... For her...
Wish I could. The X fandom is infected with Revanche groupies ganging up against Betsy. First time a fictional char was bullied and hated like Betsy is on social media. With Hank it's char assassinating but with Betsy is racist psychobabble and pure scorn.
Don't forget to ask your "X-Men Monday" questions from the link @Hoxor posted for us guys.
About X-Force.
(I posted link again in this post below).
We got till Monday 5pm Eastern time.
I asked mine already.
One of course was about the Butterfly lol.
Time to be proactive & not panicky imo.
Here's how I see it.
According to the new writer they know a lot (supposedly or possibly a lot of multiple accounts) like Betsy as CB,
but he also knows a lot do not like her as CB.
Now judging by her bad sales as CB, I would say they are probably gonna currently lean more to the ones that don't like her as CB to see if there is a difference sales wise.
Cause if it truly was so many people who loved her as CB, the books would have sold great too.
So I would say let's be vocal (and @Kiki ...Jordan White & Howard kinda had a similar attitude & they are both gone & Betsy is still here lol,
so if the new person has a similar attitude, I have no problem being vocal until we get one we like lol.
But hopefully he's better.)
Again here is the link.
Let's get writing questions (respectfully) for Betsy folks :)
I checked out of twatter the hornet's nest of Revanche cult. The identity politics meter is off the charts there. And I'm sure Brevoort will continue the White road to hell for Betsy coz he ain't new to the rodeo. Brevoort got a deal under Marvel since the 80s when Betsy was Psylocke. He is ok with the butterfly and telepathy all Psylocke Betsy things taken by Revanche so he ain't gonna do favors for Betsy.
What a humbug. One thing I can't stand is hypocrisy. Logan, Laura and Daken share Wolverine, Jean, Rachel and Echo share Phoenix. Betsy and Revanche is no different.
That... makes no sense. It's not like the two characters would be known as Psylocke at the same time; people are just asking for Betsy to keep her key traits. And like Kiki said, if there can be three Wolverines around, I don't see why two characters couldn't share the psychic butterfly signature (especially considering how many X-Men share the same powers) - and even if Marvel feels that only one of them can have it, why not let the signature stay with the character who, you know, ALWAYS HAD IT, rather than the one who has no previous connection to it at all?
*sigh* At this point, I guess Betsy should start dying her hair red, white and blue or at least take her Union Jack mask and wig from wherever she kept them after Slaymaster blinded her, because it seems to be a matter of time before Brevoort decides that the purple hair color should become exclusively Kwannon's as well... to be fair, the Union Jack mask and wig were pretty cool; it's just sad that she may have to wear them back because she can no longer have the traits she's had for decades.
Psylocke mantle isn't tied to the butterfly but Betsy is. The butterfly shows her brittle quality that also helps Betsy survive. Oxymoronish as it is that's what Claremont had in mind. It was like so from day one she became X-woman. Betsy let out this secret to Rachel when they were locked in the white hot room.
Purple hair is safe with Betsy coz Asian Psylocke is known for her ninja shtick and being Asian so black hair is what fans want Revanche to have. The purple locks defeats the demand of wanting Psylocke to be Asian by dying her hair after Betsy. If Brevoort gives that blatant trait of Betsy to Kwannon paired with Betsy's butterfly fans will call him out for his hypocrisy. But I kinda wish Brevoort does take purple hair from Betsy too to give em to Kwannon so that other x fans understand what I've been talking about all this time.
@Kiki I'm pretty sure most people understand what you are talking about.
Some might be willfully ignorant or just pretend that they don't so they can dislike Betsy or blame her for Kwannon's struggles.
But it kinda hard to pretend to not see that Kwannon would still be braindead and in a coma if not for her friend's kidnapping and violating Betsy to resurrect her.
Betsy gave her new life, as Kwannon's life was gone & over before Betsy encountered her.
That and of course now Kwannon now has the codename, psychic signature, and the outfit Betsy wore for years (or at least now just colors).
I think Ray Charles can see that lol.
I seen and dealt with some of the groups you mentioned, but the truth is a vast majority don't want to deal with logic and rather talk what I perceive to be in some cases downright lunacy.
I'm fine with people like that representing Kwannon's Fandom vs having them representing Betsy's.
I rather fans of Betsy appear to be sane lol (and I'm not saying all Kwannon fans are that case, but a lot on the places you mentioned that I encountered seem to be).
But here's the thing. We Betsy fans are vocal & noticeable too.
How do I know that? Because some of those people came over here to stir things up. But the only reason they'd do that is because places like this with Betsy fans
#1 provide good counters to their logic that can easily be dismantled with basic storyline facts (hence the willful ignorance).
&
#2 must be pretty well known and heard about ourselves.. due to being vocal.
Vocal enough for those groups to want to come over and jump on here, & vocal enough for Tini and Jordan to have addressed our issues (even if its in a way that says accept this & that, however what that also shows is that whether they like it or not, our voices when we work as a team are pretty loud and we & our issues are being noticed
and if not by them, then by possibly the people who employ them.
I still believe a lot of these positive changes we've seen for Betsy are due to our persistence when they wanted us to be silent and give up.
I see no reason to stop now, I encourage to keep writing whenever and wherever we can for issues we have (and also compliment any changes we have liked...like Betsy getting a new outfit).
I think that is far more productive than shouting Betsy is doomed & there is nothing we can do, especially since we seen drastic changes i don't think we'd have see if we had remained silent.
Sent mine tho I don't see them publish it. Reva groupies don't know Psylocke has a history with Betsy and the Revanche was a retcon to hurt Claremont.
You're right I'm gonna be more positive the fight ain't over. We deliver justice for Betsy's sake. If more people know about Acts Of Vengeance read the comic the victimhood of Revanche won't fly no more and Betsy gets her name cleared.
Maybe it is just me, and it seems to be faint,
ReplyDeletebut it kinda looks like Betsy is using her TK to fly from the psychic specs coming from her head & not CB powers for flight? (I obviously could be wrong)
If so that is pretty interesting.
Yeah she's definitely using TK here. She's not wearing the CB suit.
ReplyDeleteAlso no butterfly ughh funny how they quickly show Kwannon always use it in previews and covers but Betsy barely gets to show it off if at all at this point. I don't understand why Thorne was vague about the butterfly if it's not gone then why not just say so?
@Randybear I think he likes the intrigue for the fans.
DeleteHe probably thinks people's interest will be increased do to all the questions we have regarding Betsy.
It is kinda working for me, I definitely plan on at least initially purchasing this book lol.
I already have the series pre ordered and added to my LCS pull list, I'm just going to he disappointed if he goes the TH route and indicates she doesn't need it anymore. I've seen his fan arts depicting her butterfly but this could very well be an editorial mandate.
DeleteI pray that Thorne has not removed the butterfly power signature. It’s still so odd that Marvel refuses to give Kwannon her own unique power signature and colors.
ReplyDeleteAs for X-Factor, I am ecstatic to see Dr. Reyes reporting for duty! I hope she finally gets to fully shine as she is one of the few characters created around that time in the late 90s that actually felt authentic and who I rooted for.
Unfortunately @Rahsaan i don't think its that odd, while they tried to tell a "deep" story about two women who lost their bodies/identities at points,
ReplyDeleteTPTB also simultaneously ironically also seem to view them as just bodies themselves and think we fans also are clueless enough to do the same.
I think tptb believe that fans just want an Asian woman with a butterfly effect, psychic blades, is a ninja, and uses the codename Psylocke.
They haven't gotten its Betsy the person/character we care about, no matter the body she is in. We certainly never wanted to see her stripped of everything that made her who she is, including her personality.
We fans seem to realize more than them that its what is on the inside that counts, Betsy's personality should have never changed (although thankfully she was great in Dissasembled) & Kwannon shouldn't want all the things people would associate with Betsy & while also claiming to want her own identity.
Hopefully these new stories will have Kwannon truly becoming her own person, & Betsy getting that edge and fire back.
I do think that is why they insist with the nonsense with Kwannon though. She needs a new power signature and codename asap lol.
@Randybear I hope she retains the Butterfly. I do believe she used it a lot in that series she was just in (I forgot the name, was it Unlimited Comics?), but she was CB however was written much more in character vs when Howard wrote her, and was using the butterfly.
Time will tell how this goes guys :) crossing fingers.
Everyone I ask brevoort a question on da substack yall like it and make more questions so he can see that there are many betsy fan
ReplyDeleteIs that the same site that Thorne usually answers questions on?
DeleteIf so, I tried to register, but it wouldn't let me.
It the tom brevoort substack https://tombrevoort.substack.com/p/119-dont-ever-talk-to-me-again-dude
DeleteOk. I think I was able to write on that one. Thanks.
DeleteWow only 1 question about Betsy in the entire thread and comments lol thanks XMan!
ReplyDeleteLet's ask about Betsy guys! Of course politely and maybe about the butterfly. Let him know we won't let it go away again.
My question about Betsy too just subtle putting thoughts into his head, manipulation tactic I da mastermidn
Delete@Nichelle get him! 😁
Delete@Randybear your welcome lol.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletenu gurl nichelle i like u n how u move thanks 4 lookin out
ReplyDeleteTanks
DeleteHaven't you all seen what happened in XMen book. Revanche claimed the butterfly which means Betsy is done filthy for the umpteenth time
ReplyDeleteIt's over for Betsy. The butterfly is gone and I don't think it's coming back this time. And Betsy has gone the way of Iceman and Ric/Shatterstar. She's just a gay character now and all I see are people asking about she and Rachel.
DeleteMeanwhile Kwannon is able to function on a high level albeit in a relationship with Greycrow.
Time to ask your questions: https://aiptcomics.com/2024/07/10/x-men-monday-geoffrey-thorne-x-force/
ReplyDeleteQuestion: by "claimed the butterfly", do you mean that Kwannon explicitly says on-panel that the butterfly is now hers, or was she just shown using the psychic butterfly? If it's the latter, while it's frustrating that she's using yet another thing that she was never associated with before, it wouldn't mean that Betsy lost the butterfly; both women could have it (even though it would look repetitive).
ReplyDeleteAnyway, about her being "just a gay character now", that could be dangerous, yes, but Geoffrey Thorne has repeatedly stated that her relationship with Rachel won't be a major focus on either her characterization or Rachel's on X-Force, so I'm trusting him.
But it is kinda sad how many of Marvel's writers seem to have a hard time writing gay characters with personalities and personal plots that go beyond their sexual orientation. I remember even Marjorie Liu giving Northstar and his husband quite shallow representations in her Astonishing X-Men run - which was shocking to me, because she's the same writer that gave some much needed depth to X-23 as a character and I think she's a great writer. As for Shatterstar and Rictor, to be fair, I did enjoy what Peter David did to them (and Rob Liefeld barely gave them any actual personality besides "generic 1990s badass" back in the day, so in the end Rictor and Shatterstar today are still much better characters than they were before coming out of the closet).
Do u guy think that Betsy will ever be in a flagship titles? Like da avengers or x-men
ReplyDeleteI'm fine with X-Force, thats when she had some of her best writing before.
DeleteAs for the butterfly, I'm also curious as to what Kwannon said.
I would suggest to give them backlash just like before if that is true.
They want fans to be accepting and give up. I'm not doing that ever, I'm not gonna freak out either though.
Just gonna be as vocal as possible.
I feel like people have been smug about this saying as usual "oh you're worried for nothing. It'll be just like Excalibur and make a come back!" Yeah becuase we let them know or else it would have never come back.
DeletePeople are more interested in if she is still with Rachel than anything else at this point.
@Nichelle, good question. While some X-Men characters have become Avengers in recent years, it's not common; however, now that she's Captain Britain (...that is, assuming she didn't lose the mantle before the upcoming X-Force run) and if Marvel is indeed giving all her usual traits to Kwannon to try to fool the casual audience into thinking Kwannon is the same "Ninjalocke" we've seen since the 1990s (she already has the psychic knife, her hair is often colored as dark purple instead of black, and apparently now she also has the psychic butterfly signature), then yes, it would make more sense to send Betsy to the Avengers than to the X-Men.
ReplyDeleteI could see her joining a X-Men flagship title if somehow she and Kwannon reverse their roles and Kwannon moves to a satellite book (I actually think Kwannon would make much more sense being in X-Force or X-Factor than she does in a major X-Men team - being in a satellite book would make it easier to develop her as her own character instead of reducing her as "the new Ninjalocke"). But that's just my opinion.
Don't get me wrong; I don't think you're worried for nothing. All I'm saying is that it is possible that both Betsy and Kwannon will have the butterfly signature from now on - which is still a problem, yes, because it was supposed to belong to Betsy only.
ReplyDeleteThat said, ever since that Madripoor story ended up with Betsy making a new body modeled after her original one back and included that fateful scene with Kwannon's Asian body turning out to be alive (when Sapphire Styx supposedly killed it by draining its life force), I knew there was a considerable risk that Marvel would try to push Kwannon after the "body unswap" as a way to have their cake and eat it. Sadly, that's exactly what they did (going the easy way of using her as the new "Ninjalocke" rather than turning her into her own character), and sadly the general audience seems to be satisfied with her the way she is. Of course, we can - and we should! - express our dissatisfaction with most of Betsy's traits being lazily transferred to Kwannon just so that Marvel can keep a "Ninjalocke" around, but I don't think they'll change that just because Betsy's fans are complaining - at least not if the majority of the people reading the new X-books approves or doesn't mind what Marvel is doing regarding these two characters.
*not if the majority of the people BUYING and reading the new X-books approves or doesn't mind what Marvel is doing regarding these two characters.
ReplyDeleteDo u guy remember da free betsy trend dat wa trending
ReplyDeleteImagin if brevorot was ds editor and saw dat
ReplyDeleteI think if fans are vocal TPTB definitely listen, those are still potential sales lost if people voice disappointment.
ReplyDeleteVs having fans of both characters happy and potentially even more sales.
Fans were vocal enough imho that we now have Betsy in a new sleek uniform, a new book, & a new writer. We were able to get the butterfly back before, so if its gone again, we just try to do it again
I'd say us being stubborn accomplished quite a bit. And it can't be just because of Howard's writing they believe sales were down, because again look at everything they changed I mentioned above, not just the writer.
They want to hear us be like "oh I think its gone and never coming back". But I think pushback can help.
I will always let them know I'm displeased and would like it addressed and fixed lol.
But let's see what is actually written for Betsy first I guess.
Jmho.
Thanks XMan you're one of the few making any effort atm
DeleteNo prob :)
Delete@X-Man, I do agree with you that Marvel's stance regarding "Ninjalocke" seems quite short-sighted. They're betting on the appeal that "Ninjalocke" has had with readers for more than three decades, while Betsy may be looking "uninteresting" and "unworthy" of keeping her signature characteristics (the purple hair, the psychic butterfly, etc.) due to being featured in three X-books in a row that did very poorly in sales.
ReplyDeleteThey don't seem to be considering that 1: Betsy's book's bad numbers had less to do with the character herself and more to do with them insisting on keeping the same writer in charge of her (apparently they considered that the problem was in the character, not in the writer, despite said writer not having any other Marvel run to show the readers liked her work), and 2: as far as I know, Kwannon's first X-book as the new Psylocke (Fallen Angels) did even worse than Betsy's both in sales and critical reception, showing that having a "Ninjalocke" around doesn't guarantee success (which they should already know from some poor runs that Ninja Betsy was a part of throughout her time in Kwannon's body). Hellions did much better, yes - and that had to do with the creative team delivering good stories (let's face it, Nanny and Empath aren't exactly A-list characters, and if anyone thinks that the book did well due to having Psylocke, I already said that there are several instances of poorly received comic book runs featuring her in the past).
So, yeah, the problem with their stance is that if whatever book with "Ninjalocke" fails to capture the readers, they won't even have the character's fans to keep a minimal support. As much as many people here hated TH's Excalibur, Knights of X and BB:CB, I know that some people here still kept buying (or at least following) the stories because Betsy is there. Kwannon doesn't seem to have built a fanbase herself since her return, due to her being presented as "the current Ninjalocke" rather than her own character, so whenever she lands in a badly received X-book (and it WILL happen, because it has happened to EVERY X-Man at some point), let's hope Marvel won't expect people to consume the book because she'll be in it. Because that won't happen.
I'm afraid I'm not as optimistic as you are, unfortunately, as many people there do seem to reduce "Psylocke" to her visual aspects (again: purple hair, ninja skills, psychic knife and butterfly) rather than her actual identity and background (I remember reading a comment quite recently about some artists having to be informed by FANS that the current Psylocke doesn't have purple hair, and it wouldn't surprise me if some of them aren't even aware that the current Psylocke is NOT Betsy Braddock - that is, assuming that they know that "Betsy Braddock" is the actual name from the 1990s Psylocke or that she wasn't an Asian woman since her first appearance). That said, I DO hope your optimism is well-founded and that things will get better for her (as a character) and for us (as readers who love her as a character). Thorne does seem to have a much better grasp on her than Howard did, so that's a good start, I guess.
(sorry for my ranting, y'all)
@Fsaker your fine. I'm not sure its as much optimistic, cause we definitely been burned before, but I'm more hopeful I would say.
DeleteI definitely get your frustration and fears, I just want to see how the initial first issues are and go from there.
I like that the writer listens and has actually talked a lot and addresses things vs how it seemed at times Howard just dismissed a lot of us.
To be honest after Howard, I thought Betsy was going to vanish, so was very glad to see that wasn't the case & is actually in X-Force
(which is prob a group as far from being Captain Britainlike as possible lol & also a book she was very well written in before).
I do hate that TPTB don't get the point of the women's stories they were trying to tell though.
Your telling a story about losing identity & the struggles of that, while also taking their identities from them while attempting to tell those stories, talking about missing the point lol.
It is very sad they don't see how they are again looking at these two as bodies and not women.
Kwannon should not want all these things associated with Betsy like her psychic signature, her signature colors, and codename.
Imo it is an insult to both Betsy and herself.
But hopefully this new book surprises us all and will deliver.
Brevoort and co do all in their power to state Revanche is the new Betsy you like it or not shut up and there's nothing you can do. I'll be not surprised if Captain Kettle makes a comeback and Betsy is kept shackled in Bikini Coward's larping prison with the X-Force new costume act as bait for a fresh start after four years of pure captain vomit.
ReplyDeleteWe need 2 be optimistic...I understand you're concern but it Betsy in other media .. I also do wish ...
DeleteBetsy was in da flagship title maybe uncanny becuz her friends are there or aveneger...
But this a new era...
For her...
Wish I could. The X fandom is infected with Revanche groupies ganging up against Betsy. First time a fictional char was bullied and hated like Betsy is on social media. With Hank it's char assassinating but with Betsy is racist psychobabble and pure scorn.
DeleteYou guys should make posts on platforms such as twitter...I'm going to make a twitter account and advocate for Betsy...
ReplyDeleteDon't forget to ask your "X-Men Monday" questions from the link @Hoxor posted for us guys.
ReplyDeleteAbout X-Force.
(I posted link again in this post below).
We got till Monday 5pm Eastern time.
I asked mine already.
One of course was about the Butterfly lol.
Time to be proactive & not panicky imo.
Here's how I see it.
According to the new writer they know a lot (supposedly or possibly a lot of multiple accounts) like Betsy as CB,
but he also knows a lot do not like her as CB.
Now judging by her bad sales as CB, I would say they are probably gonna currently lean more to the ones that don't like her as CB to see if there is a difference sales wise.
Cause if it truly was so many people who loved her as CB, the books would have sold great too.
So I would say let's be vocal (and @Kiki ...Jordan White & Howard kinda had a similar attitude & they are both gone & Betsy is still here lol,
so if the new person has a similar attitude, I have no problem being vocal until we get one we like lol.
But hopefully he's better.)
Again here is the link.
Let's get writing questions (respectfully) for Betsy folks :)
https://aiptcomics.com/2024/07/10/x-men-monday-geoffrey-thorne-x-force/
I checked out of twatter the hornet's nest of Revanche cult. The identity politics meter is off the charts there. And I'm sure Brevoort will continue the White road to hell for Betsy coz he ain't new to the rodeo. Brevoort got a deal under Marvel since the 80s when Betsy was Psylocke. He is ok with the butterfly and telepathy all Psylocke Betsy things taken by Revanche so he ain't gonna do favors for Betsy.
DeleteTom Brevoort answer my question it seem he don't like 2 characters sharing da mantles unfortunately 😕
ReplyDeleteWhat a humbug. One thing I can't stand is hypocrisy. Logan, Laura and Daken share Wolverine, Jean, Rachel and Echo share Phoenix. Betsy and Revanche is no different.
Delete@Nichelle I expected that, Betsy's future really lies in being Captain Britain or something new...
ReplyDeleteThat true unless dey do synergy for da mcu
ReplyDeleteThat... makes no sense. It's not like the two characters would be known as Psylocke at the same time; people are just asking for Betsy to keep her key traits. And like Kiki said, if there can be three Wolverines around, I don't see why two characters couldn't share the psychic butterfly signature (especially considering how many X-Men share the same powers) - and even if Marvel feels that only one of them can have it, why not let the signature stay with the character who, you know, ALWAYS HAD IT, rather than the one who has no previous connection to it at all?
ReplyDelete*sigh* At this point, I guess Betsy should start dying her hair red, white and blue or at least take her Union Jack mask and wig from wherever she kept them after Slaymaster blinded her, because it seems to be a matter of time before Brevoort decides that the purple hair color should become exclusively Kwannon's as well... to be fair, the Union Jack mask and wig were pretty cool; it's just sad that she may have to wear them back because she can no longer have the traits she's had for decades.
Psylocke mantle isn't tied to the butterfly but Betsy is. The butterfly shows her brittle quality that also helps Betsy survive. Oxymoronish as it is that's what Claremont had in mind. It was like so from day one she became X-woman. Betsy let out this secret to Rachel when they were locked in the white hot room.
DeletePurple hair is safe with Betsy coz Asian Psylocke is known for her ninja shtick and being Asian so black hair is what fans want Revanche to have. The purple locks defeats the demand of wanting Psylocke to be Asian by dying her hair after Betsy. If Brevoort gives that blatant trait of Betsy to Kwannon paired with Betsy's butterfly fans will call him out for his hypocrisy. But I kinda wish Brevoort does take purple hair from Betsy too to give em to Kwannon so that other x fans understand what I've been talking about all this time.
@Kiki I'm pretty sure most people understand what you are talking about.
DeleteSome might be willfully ignorant or just pretend that they don't so they can dislike Betsy or blame her for Kwannon's struggles.
But it kinda hard to pretend to not see that Kwannon would still be braindead and in a coma if not for her friend's kidnapping and violating Betsy to resurrect her.
Betsy gave her new life, as Kwannon's life was gone & over before Betsy encountered her.
That and of course now Kwannon now has the codename, psychic signature, and the outfit Betsy wore for years (or at least now just colors).
I think Ray Charles can see that lol.
I seen and dealt with some of the groups you mentioned, but the truth is a vast majority don't want to deal with logic and rather talk what I perceive to be in some cases downright lunacy.
I'm fine with people like that representing Kwannon's Fandom vs having them representing Betsy's.
I rather fans of Betsy appear to be sane lol (and I'm not saying all Kwannon fans are that case, but a lot on the places you mentioned that I encountered seem to be).
But here's the thing. We Betsy fans are vocal & noticeable too.
How do I know that? Because some of those people came over here to stir things up. But the only reason they'd do that is because places like this with Betsy fans
#1 provide good counters to their logic that can easily be dismantled with basic storyline facts (hence the willful ignorance).
&
#2 must be pretty well known and heard about ourselves.. due to being vocal.
Vocal enough for those groups to want to come over and jump on here, & vocal enough for Tini and Jordan to have addressed our issues (even if its in a way that says accept this & that, however what that also shows is that whether they like it or not, our voices when we work as a team are pretty loud and we & our issues are being noticed
and if not by them, then by possibly the people who employ them.
I still believe a lot of these positive changes we've seen for Betsy are due to our persistence when they wanted us to be silent and give up.
I see no reason to stop now, I encourage to keep writing whenever and wherever we can for issues we have (and also compliment any changes we have liked...like Betsy getting a new outfit).
I think that is far more productive than shouting Betsy is doomed & there is nothing we can do, especially since we seen drastic changes i don't think we'd have see if we had remained silent.
Jmho.
https://aiptcomics.com/2024/07/10/x-men-monday-geoffrey-thorne-x-force/
Sent mine tho I don't see them publish it. Reva groupies don't know Psylocke has a history with Betsy and the Revanche was a retcon to hurt Claremont.
DeleteYou're right I'm gonna be more positive the fight ain't over. We deliver justice for Betsy's sake. If more people know about Acts Of Vengeance read the comic the victimhood of Revanche won't fly no more and Betsy gets her name cleared.
Kiki , please focus on the brevoort substack too I hope u sended a message dere
DeleteExactly @Kiki we are used to being the underdog just like Betsy.
DeleteWe gotta always keep fighting :)
iṣola boo dont b 2 jaded
ReplyDelete