Spoilers: While talking to Kwannon, Magneto reminds her that Betsy hates him and ran a psychic dagger through his body. Later, Betsy tries to approach Kwannon during the Krakoan festivities, but she doesn't want to talk.
"lol wow yeah fuck you Betsy you ruined my life and are 100% responsible! I'm so glad I didnt buy this garbahe."
I think it might be a little more complex than that. If you actually read the issue, in her conversation with Sinister, she does express anger towards Betsy, but catches herself and stops giving Sinister the satisfaction of playing his mindgames.
There's definitely anger, but the writing is also making it clear she knows things aren't black and white.
These 3 panels don't encapsulate what the issue is about.
That's good to know. I'm hoping it's written well. Although I think Betsy should have a little anger as well then....considering the reason she was dragged into the swap was because the posse Kwannon hung with was trying to use Betsy to save Kwannon's life.
"And from nothing que gets the name psylocke f rom the real psylocke..."
Yeah, the way she inherits the name in the issue is one of the weaker points of the story. Kwannon's rationale is that since Betsy once took over her body, her way of claiming it is by taking on that name.
(Spoiler: Kwannon isn't her real name. It was also just given to her, and she refers to it as a "shackle". Her actual name has yet to be revealed.)
Is she aware that she also took over Betsy's body and that she attacked Betsy with a psychic sword the instant she saw her and claimed to actually be the real Betsy? I'm asking because I'm wondering if someone removed those memories from her and she's being mentally manipulated somehow to think it wasn't a swap but more Betsy just took over her body? I havent read it yet, but she seems a little "off" to me from how it's being described.
Kwannon comes off as unlikeable and a huge hypocrite. It was her dear little lover who stole Betsy's body in the first place in order to revive her. Did she forget she stole Betsy's vastly more powerful body as well?
Well, this book is getting awful reviews and will probably sell the least among all 6 books. That's what the writer deserves. Good riddance!
"Is she aware that she also took over Betsy's body and that she attacked Betsy with a psychic sword the instant she saw her and claimed to actually be the real Betsy? I'm asking because I'm wondering if someone removed those memories from her and she's being mentally manipulated somehow to think it wasn't a swap but more Betsy just took over her body? I havent read it yet, but she seems a little "off" to me from how it's being described."
If I remember correctly, the time Kwannon claimed to be Betsy was during the time neither women knew the truth. Their memories were so intertwined that even Xavier couldn't tell who was telling the truth. It was only later on that they got sorted out, and they actually co-existed peacefully for a while, even fighting alongside each other. It was really messy writing.
I'm getting the impression that the writer of Fallen Angels is coming off the fact that Betsy as a character flourished in the asian body while Kwannon was largely forgotten after her death in Betsy's original body.
In fact, the writer is implying that Kwannon has been inside Betsy's psyche all this time, but had no authority whatsoever over her body. She's been "aware" all these years, but no one could "hear" her.
So what i'm getting is that a chunk of the original body swap saga is being forgotten. Kwannon didn't "die", but was instead trapped in Betsy's head while she was running around in her body.
It's just the first issue so we'll have to wait and see how the thing is fully explained. Could go either way.
Most of the reviews I've read have placed it as one of the better titles in the relaunch. Biggest overall complaint seems to be the art, some panels it's hard to tell X-23 apart from Psylocke.
Which is why I've always felt they should've made X-23 look more like her Evolution design, more Latina & a darker complexion. Always figured they went with the pale look & black hair in the comics to sell the fact that she's female Logan.
I had a feeling the initial body mess would be glossed over & still think it we won't have a conversation between both Betsy & Kwannon for a while in either book. Still feel it would be reserved for an annual or something. It is definitely going for the more psychological aspects of finding yourself & I wonder what Hill is going through. He's made it abundantly clear in interviews that something highly personal is pushing his direction on this book.
It's just issue 1 & I think it's less angry at Betsy & more angry at the world & situation. If you read the issue you can see she's tense at everyone & ignoring the discussion she needs to have with Betsy.
"t's just issue 1 & I think it's less angry at Betsy & more angry at the world & situation. If you read the issue you can see she's tense at everyone & ignoring the discussion she needs to have with Betsy."
This. She comes across as angry at the whole situation and is just doing everything she can to avoid talking about it.
I hope Betsy thrusts her psychic sword into her head in a later issue of either Excalibur or Fallen Angels. Or just knock her unconscious or something.
Good to know Bryan Edward Shill has served his common fiasco work.
Made the thief Psylocke-Elektra mashup Kwannon angry at the victim Betsy for having her white identity and life stolen from her by Kwannon's Hand lover Matsuo. With whom Kwannon cheated on her master Nyo Irin. Kwannon is a liar, hypocrite, ingrate bish and wh@re.
Bryan did one good thing established that Kwannon is her new code name and not her real name. Make it fast and change her name from Psylocke wannabe to Kwannon the goddess of mercy and be done with.
For me was a crap edition with some nonsense. If Nicieza created the original body-mess the writer simply ignore the characters in a bad sense. Starting with the name. There are several ways she can take the name for a start. Not for a certain freshness. Besides, was she numb? Oh really? And is Psylocke to blame for the body exchange? BODY EXCHANGE. I thought it was her boyfriend ... If she was numb, who took Betsy's body claiming to be her and was part of the x-men in the 90's as Rematch? If she was numb, who released the memories of both? Who died at the time? Now we have a third element? Moreover, this decrease of Psylocke, as if she were a poor innocent before the body exchange does not hold. It was the same psylocke who had suggested killing Havock, and made the x-men go through Siege Perilous. Some background stuff seemed interesting, but now she will also use the butterfly, which has always been a symbol of betsy, will become a complete telepath when in the original story of nicieza she had few empathic powers?
It all started with Nicieza with her notion that Japanese and Chinese don't have the slightest difference to begin with. If the Mandarin gangs wouldn't follow a Caucasian as much as a Japanese ... But they made that story. Why move it further to satisfy the SJW?
Mostly went as I anticipated. Marvel incriminates Betsy because she was born a White female and therefore she must pay for the sins of others.
The body swap is swept under the rug as well as the amnesia from the Siege Perilous and the violations of the Hand and the Mandarin on Betsy's soul and body.
Kwannon acts high and mighty ordering reparations for starting as a plastic surgery devised by Claremont and then evolving into a Nicieza plot device to misconstrue the Asianification of Betsy's face.
Kwannon isn't her name anymore and literally she is a ''nothing'' like Rosenberg dubbed her. She had a daughter who she let go to end up dead thus making her a terrible mother and an irresponsible person who betrays everyone to seek pleasure. Well done.
I hate how he turned the butterfly mith something about Kwannon's history. He should have picked another sign to represent her! The butterfly was part of Betsy's history even before all this mess of body swap, it was her sign, not Kawannon's. After all the history she built, they thought it would be ok to give everything to another character. Well, It's not.
I think her being mad a Betsy is a great addition because it creates a story link between the two. Ask me why that's important! Okay, comments don't work that way but Ill tell you anyway.
This Psylocke is not failing and she's not going away. This is Marvel's solution to the awkwardness that was a British woman in an Asian body. Eventually (2021 at the latest), the x-books will get re-shuffled again and Psylocke will be in one of the new books. The one who is not guaranteed a spot is Betsy. Betsy may end up just like Brian, pretty much unseen until the next Excalibur reboot. Unless she has a character arc with her 'sister' so having her hate Betsy is a good thing.
That story can go many places. Elizabeth may well have been unaware of Kwannon's suppressed presence until she reconstituted both bodies. We don't know what they will do with that story (never address it at all is a distinct possibility given past trends) And that story can keep Captain Britain's (Betsy) character alive.
Asian Psylocke is staying, that version is the iconic version of Psylocke (Sorry to pink Psylocke fans, but it's been three decades now(I still love 213)) The x-men revival could begin sooner than later with the Launch of Disney+ and they will be using the iconic version.
For now, I'm happily following both and enjoying the golden age of two Psylockes. But I fully understand that from a Betsy perspective were standing on the edge of another 2001-4. Long stretches without any appearance and a possible fade into obscurity.
I rather they have their own identities and Betsy had kept her own codename and Kwannon was original, but if they must keep them linked it should be in a story that makes sense. Even if I thought linking them was beneficial to Betsy (and I'm not thoroughly convinced of that) i would still like it done in a way that doesnt insult the reader's intelligence. Betsy was literally dragged into Kwannon's drama without a choice. She was used as a tool to revive Kwannon by Kwannon's lover. They both never consented to the swap. Kwannon later showed up and disrupted Betsy's life by claiming she was Betsy. There is no backstory that supports Kwannon being mad at Betsy for anything. There is however,enough there to support Betsy being upset with Kwannon (even though I think neither is really to blame). I hope this has a good conclusion.
I agree Xiao. I honestly dont think Betsy will stick around long she will eventually become an outsider or sometimes ally to the XMen. When game developers, tv/movie writers ask for Psylocke they aren't going to ask or care for Betsy Braddock they want the ninja. So unless Betsy surprises us all and becomes a smash surprise hit as CB she wont last long sadly.
Yup. This is very same insulting crap born in the very issue when Braddock was racelifted. Editorial wants their cake and eat it too. Somewhat ironically, they incorrectly assume (like Matsuo) that the physical shell of Kwanlocke is good enough and all that readers wanted.
In other situations, I would share Xiaodave's concern. But Hickman is in charge of the X-Men as a whole (including both Betsy and Kwannon, even if he's not the one writing their books), and his runs are usually quite long, with planning in advance not for months, but for YEARS, so both are safe for a considerable time. And most of the changes he introduces tend to stick even after his runs end.
But thinking in terms of other media (videogames, TV, movies), if Kwannon does become more popular than her, there's still a good chance that Disney/Marvel may move Betsy to another part of the Marvel universe, like the Avengers. I'm not too fond of the Avengers so I wouldn't like this change, but it could happen (especially if Marvel decides to make their roster more diverse in terms of nationalities and powers). They may even give her a push as a solo superhero if pushing and empowering female protagonists is still among their goals by then.
If any character is in risk of falling into obscurity with these codename changes, it's Brian.
Oh, and as for Unknown's questions about Kwannon's allegation that she was "numb" this whole time, one possibility I considered is that when she transferred Betsy's memories back to her (when she was dying due to the Legacy Virus), she may have also transferred her mind (or a copy of her mind, as I think she was still alive for a brief time after that, going to have her fatal duel with Matsuo if I remember correctly) by accident into Betsy's mind/brain. Once there, it likely got overwhelmed by Betsy's mind and became dormant.
I know, that's very complicated - but far less complicated than many things we've seen involving the X-Men, right? Plus, it somehow would help explain that scene during Fraction's run when Betsy had a duel in the mind plane against an evil version of herself: the Red Queen never mentioned putting that evil doppleganger inside her mind, so it could be Kwannon trying to take control (and failing, like she always does)...
In the original body-swap mess, writers intentionally wrote Kwannon as the less likeable character because it helps justify Betsy keeping the asian body. It was all so Marvel could keep their cultural faux pas that proved to be the best thing that happened to a character in terms of popularity.
In this day and age of "Wokeness", that simply cannot be anymore. So now, Marvel is "making amends" by putting the POC in the spotlight and making the white woman be apologetic about what happened.
They did Kwannon wrong in the start and to make up for it, they're throwing Betsy under the bus. It's really just their way of apologizing, really. Neither of these characters are to blame.
Also, these are fictional characters, so let's not act like they're conscious beings making conscious decisions. They act how they are written.
I guess I was okay with the name going to Kwannon simply to give her character a chance. Given that Captain Britain was being made available (poor Brian). Oddly enough the butterfly was there from the start, I wanted her to keep that. I was hoping we might see a Psylocke that was angrier and more physical (and lo and behold) and a Captain Britain that was more telepath / Telekinetic. (Jury's out.)
I agree with Xiaodave. If anything, I wish Betsy had kept the butterfly sig. That was hers.
I understand the Psychic Knife going to Kwannon. Betsy only started manifesting it in Kwannon's body, leading me to believe that maybe it was an innate ability Kwannon had - to channel psychic energy into focused weapons.
But the butterfly was always Betsy's. Overall, this whole thing is a promising start. Flawed, but promising. I just wish the Kwannon character would be given a chance, both by writers and Anglo-Psylocke fans.
I can accept both guilt (from Betsy) and anger (from Kwannon) as personal emotional responses, but I don't think they are acceptable as rationally justified by what really happened. They can be emotional reactions but not a reflection of real facts, since Betsy has never stolen the body or life from anyone. What is not acceptable, on the other hand, are the real thefts like the passage of the code name "Psylocke" from Betsy to Kwannon (admissible only if it was Betsy to pass it to Kwannon, not as a unilateral appropriation, and on this Betsy has absolutely no reason to feel guilty or to feel embarrassed to use that name or to be called that way) and, above all, the theft of the symbolism of the butterfly, which is not linked to the code name Psylocke but to Betsy, period. This is what is most wrong with this story, the undue appropriation of butterfly mythology in favour of Kwannon. It's an absolutely unacceptable alienation against Betsy, she and she alone will always be the butterfly and the blade. Let the authors be less lazy and invent something new and personal for Kwannon.
Either a new codename or "Kwannon" I can accept being her name. I might pick this up later on because I see a lot of development for her. Shocking that she has a daughter and knowing she do have a real name. I'm definitely giving this title a change its just getting started plus did she said she going to have more members to her team too!!!
Regarding this whole situation of Betsy feeling guilty over Kwannon, could it mean she was aware that Kwannon's mind was locked inside of hers and decided to just keep Kwannon there, powerless? If that's the explanation, that would sorta justify Kwannon's anger over her.
But even if that's the case, I'm still team Betsy, of course. Kwannon was a jerk from the very first moment she met Betsy back in the 1990s, so I'm sorry if I still feel no sympathy for her.
It’s so hilarious to me that now that Kwannon is fully in control of her own body again, artists make an actual effort to draw her body as East Asian in phenotype versus usually looking Northern European.
Also, is this new storyline of her being hidden deep inside the brain of the body answering the question I had from Mystery in Madripoor of how her soul got pulled from oblivion and back into her body once Bets vacated it?
Also, I haven't read the issue yet... But am I to understand that Kwannon is a slave name for this character, so this character then decides to trade that slave name for the slave name of Psylocke? Interesting.
I haven't read it either. Hoping to grab it Saturday. I mean Betsy took the name Psylocke and made it her own so I can get that part, what I dont get is why Kwannon thinks the name is hers if Betsy didn't bestow it upon her? Or why she doesnt remember the swap happened due to her lover trying to save her life? Betsy was literally dragged into her mess and it seems like we are supposed to forget that? Not cool lol.
Regarding Kwannon’s retention of. the dagger... Even if Bets first displayed it in her body, it is cannon that Bets is fully capable of manifesting it in her own body as well as shown in both the Sisterhood and Disassembled.
Exactly when Kwannon first showed up attacking Betsy, she manifested a psychic Katana and that was when Kwannon was in the Betsy's British body (something the writers seem to want us to forget it seems). Legion also killed Xavier in Legion Quest with what appeared to have been a psychic dagger, so I'm wondering if all psychics can manifest weapons if they want (considering Betsy also taught teen Jean how to manifest psychic weaponry as well). Also I doubt Kwannon manifested anything before gaining half of Betsy's telepathy as she was just a low level empath before.
The name thing doesn't make that much sense. The Marvel management probably made this mandatory, so they can keep on selling their toys and games without having to change anything. That's the only logical explanation. I bet Hill would have loved to give Kwannon another name (and outfit) to establish her as an independent character.
"Exactly when Kwannon first showed up attacking Betsy, she manifested a psychic Katana and that was when Kwannon was in the Betsy's British body (something the writers seem to want us to forget it seems). Legion also killed Xavier in Legion Quest with what appeared to have been a psychic dagger, so I'm wondering if all psychics can manifest weapons if they want (considering Betsy also taught teen Jean how to manifest psychic weaponry as well). Also I doubt Kwannon manifested anything before gaining half of Betsy's telepathy as she was just a low level empath before."
In Kwannon's defense, their psyches at the time were so intertwined, she really truly believed she was Betsy Braddock. The confusion cleared up and the two women actually got along in the short time Kwannon was with the team as Revanche.
They had actually made peace before Kwannon's passing in Betsy's body, but i think it's being retconned as Kwannon actually being trapped in Betsy's psyche all this time, without any agency over her body, to justify her anger.
This is comics. Histories change and things at retconned all the time.
The retcon seems so lazy and it’s obvious the writer doesn’t know all that much about Psylocke or Kwannon. You’d think it would be easy for a writer to research on a character who only has 20+ appearances. Even I know more about Kwannon and the only thing I read with her in it was the Cyclops and Jean Grey wedding trade
@Toffnut oh I know they were intertwined and not really Kwannon's fault lol. I'm just pointing out that if Kwannon is allowed to be unjustly and irrationally angry at someone she knows is a fellow victim in the body swap mess, then Betsy has more than enough arsenal to irrationally and unjustly blame the other victim if she so chose to (and probably has more of a case) lol. Betsy could start with Kwannon being on her deathbed/coma/vegetative state as the reason the whole thing even happened and it was her boyfriend kidnapping Betsy (and looking at her as a tool for Kwannon's benefit and not so much a human being) and seeking out Spiral to save Kwannon's life that put everthing in motion to begin with, then Betsy can end with Kwannon taking half her telepathy, disrupting her life and getting all her friends to doubt her because she falsely claimed to be Betsy Braddock (which Kwannon now knows was not the case. Something that some would say would warrent an apology on Kwannon's part).I would love a reconciliation between the women, but on factual events not some made up story to cast Betsy as some monster who did to Kwannon what Rogue did to Carol. Kwannon so far reminds me of those annoying people who get mad at someone their spouse cheated with when that person had no idea the spouse was married, but overlooks getting mad at the actual spouse who cheated lol. I hope I enjoy the coming up "talk" they are bound to have lol.
I agree that the retcon shows lack of research on Hill's part, but I do think there will be healing between the two characters. I think their intention is to tell a story of reconciliation, and reconciliation is a journey. It does not happen in one issue.
But first we must delve into Kwannon and her origins and just her as a character, with all her positives and all her flaws. Maybe, in whatever journey the writers have for her, she'll find peace and maturity to understand that Betsy didn't have much of a choice, either.
Their story has just begun and I will hold final judgement for until it is over.
One I know that from the time when Betsy was transformed by the Hand all her problems started. The problems have got huge and the body swap is a swollen tick that won't let go of its victim. Kwannon is sucking all the life and energy from Betsy.
I don't think Kwannon hates Betsy, I think she is terrified of her actually. Betsy also is a reminder that she was vulnerable and weak, which caused her to lose her own agency. There will be a reckoning one day, make no mistake about that. Though I love the idea of a Kwannon, I am always rooting for Betsy to be the ultimate victor.
I know it’s a controversial opinion, but wasn’t part of the reason Betsy ended up in Kwannon’s body due to wish fulfillment via the Siege Perilous. Her desire to be tempered steel instead of being a vulnerable princess is likely one of the reasons why the universe set her occupation of Kwannon’s body into motion.
I mean wasn’t one of Claremont’s original ideas for her to just be temporarily wearing an Asian face that eventually shattered and revealed her own. So, as a previous commenter said, Betsy thrived and benefitted from the body swap, from Kwannon’s vantage point that must be tough. Based on this book I’m not sure she blames Betsy (she said she just wanted her to be happy when she was in her body because she was the only “her” in the world), but sometimes we resent the happiness of others when it has no real direct correlation or bearing on our own. Sometimes other people just remind us of our darkness, shortcomings, baggage etc. Look at social media.
I did the think hammering the butterfly motif home in Kwannon’s backstory was hamfisted and unnecessary, but otherwise I thought this was better than I expected it to be. Honestly, I thought it was going to be a straight up dumpster fire, but it’s actually looking like it might be the actual X-force book of the group.
I really think Betsy as Captain Britain was the right move. Her design is great, it plays to her family legacy, honors her yearning to be a great warrior, and she has a team of some of the most iconic and beloved members of the X-men at their peak.
lol wow yeah fuck you Betsy you ruined my life and are 100% responsible! I'm so glad I didnt buy this garbahe.
ReplyDeleteAnd from nothing que gets the name psylocke f rom the real psylocke...
ReplyDelete"lol wow yeah fuck you Betsy you ruined my life and are 100% responsible! I'm so glad I didnt buy this garbahe."
ReplyDeleteI think it might be a little more complex than that. If you actually read the issue, in her conversation with Sinister, she does express anger towards Betsy, but catches herself and stops giving Sinister the satisfaction of playing his mindgames.
There's definitely anger, but the writing is also making it clear she knows things aren't black and white.
These 3 panels don't encapsulate what the issue is about.
That's good to know. I'm hoping it's written well. Although I think Betsy should have a little anger as well then....considering the reason she was dragged into the swap was because the posse Kwannon hung with was trying to use Betsy to save Kwannon's life.
Delete"And from nothing que gets the name psylocke f rom the real psylocke..."
ReplyDeleteYeah, the way she inherits the name in the issue is one of the weaker points of the story. Kwannon's rationale is that since Betsy once took over her body, her way of claiming it is by taking on that name.
(Spoiler: Kwannon isn't her real name. It was also just given to her, and she refers to it as a "shackle". Her actual name has yet to be revealed.)
Is she aware that she also took over Betsy's body and that she attacked Betsy with a psychic sword the instant she saw her and claimed to actually be the real Betsy? I'm asking because I'm wondering if someone removed those memories from her and she's being mentally manipulated somehow to think it wasn't a swap but more Betsy just took over her body? I havent read it yet, but she seems a little "off" to me from how it's being described.
DeleteKwannon comes off as unlikeable and a huge hypocrite. It was her dear little lover who stole Betsy's body in the first place in order to revive her. Did she forget she stole Betsy's vastly more powerful body as well?
ReplyDeleteWell, this book is getting awful reviews and will probably sell the least among all 6 books. That's what the writer deserves. Good riddance!
"Is she aware that she also took over Betsy's body and that she attacked Betsy with a psychic sword the instant she saw her and claimed to actually be the real Betsy? I'm asking because I'm wondering if someone removed those memories from her and she's being mentally manipulated somehow to think it wasn't a swap but more Betsy just took over her body? I havent read it yet, but she seems a little "off" to me from how it's being described."
ReplyDeleteIf I remember correctly, the time Kwannon claimed to be Betsy was during the time neither women knew the truth. Their memories were so intertwined that even Xavier couldn't tell who was telling the truth. It was only later on that they got sorted out, and they actually co-existed peacefully for a while, even fighting alongside each other. It was really messy writing.
I'm getting the impression that the writer of Fallen Angels is coming off the fact that Betsy as a character flourished in the asian body while Kwannon was largely forgotten after her death in Betsy's original body.
In fact, the writer is implying that Kwannon has been inside Betsy's psyche all this time, but had no authority whatsoever over her body. She's been "aware" all these years, but no one could "hear" her.
So what i'm getting is that a chunk of the original body swap saga is being forgotten. Kwannon didn't "die", but was instead trapped in Betsy's head while she was running around in her body.
It's just the first issue so we'll have to wait and see how the thing is fully explained. Could go either way.
Most of the reviews I've read have placed it as one of the better titles in the relaunch. Biggest overall complaint seems to be the art, some panels it's hard to tell X-23 apart from Psylocke.
ReplyDeleteWhich is why I've always felt they should've made X-23 look more like her Evolution design, more Latina & a darker complexion. Always figured they went with the pale look & black hair in the comics to sell the fact that she's female Logan.
I had a feeling the initial body mess would be glossed over & still think it we won't have a conversation between both Betsy & Kwannon for a while in either book. Still feel it would be reserved for an annual or something.
It is definitely going for the more psychological aspects of finding yourself & I wonder what Hill is going through. He's made it abundantly clear in interviews that something highly personal is pushing his direction on this book.
Why would she be angry at Betsy? I fail to see how it's her fault at all. I'm sure the book is decent, but that's just lazy writing.
ReplyDeleteIt's just issue 1 & I think it's less angry at Betsy & more angry at the world & situation. If you read the issue you can see she's tense at everyone & ignoring the discussion she needs to have with Betsy.
ReplyDelete"t's just issue 1 & I think it's less angry at Betsy & more angry at the world & situation. If you read the issue you can see she's tense at everyone & ignoring the discussion she needs to have with Betsy."
ReplyDeleteThis. She comes across as angry at the whole situation and is just doing everything she can to avoid talking about it.
So Kwannon is still a jerk.
ReplyDeleteI hope Betsy thrusts her psychic sword into her head in a later issue of either Excalibur or Fallen Angels. Or just knock her unconscious or something.
Good to know Bryan Edward Shill has served his common fiasco work.
ReplyDeleteMade the thief Psylocke-Elektra mashup Kwannon angry at the victim Betsy for having her white identity and life stolen from her by Kwannon's Hand lover Matsuo. With whom Kwannon cheated on her master Nyo Irin. Kwannon is a liar, hypocrite, ingrate bish and wh@re.
Bryan did one good thing established that Kwannon is her new code name and not her real name. Make it fast and change her name from Psylocke wannabe to Kwannon the goddess of mercy and be done with.
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ReplyDeleteFor me was a crap edition with some nonsense. If Nicieza created the original body-mess the writer simply ignore the characters in a bad sense. Starting with the name. There are several ways she can take the name for a start. Not for a certain freshness. Besides, was she numb? Oh really? And is Psylocke to blame for the body exchange? BODY EXCHANGE. I thought it was her boyfriend ... If she was numb, who took Betsy's body claiming to be her and was part of the x-men in the 90's as Rematch? If she was numb, who released the memories of both? Who died at the time? Now we have a third element?
ReplyDeleteMoreover, this decrease of Psylocke, as if she were a poor innocent before the body exchange does not hold. It was the same psylocke who had suggested killing Havock, and made the x-men go through Siege Perilous. Some background stuff seemed interesting, but now she will also use the butterfly, which has always been a symbol of betsy, will become a complete telepath when in the original story of nicieza she had few empathic powers?
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ReplyDeleteand to complement,the change of body was merely aesthetic. There was no change of character. It was the same.
ReplyDeleteIt all started with Nicieza with her notion that Japanese and Chinese don't have the slightest difference to begin with. If the Mandarin gangs wouldn't follow a Caucasian as much as a Japanese ... But they made that story. Why move it further to satisfy the SJW?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMostly went as I anticipated. Marvel incriminates Betsy because she was born a White female and therefore she must pay for the sins of others.
ReplyDeleteThe body swap is swept under the rug as well as the amnesia from the Siege Perilous and the violations of the Hand and the Mandarin on Betsy's soul and body.
Kwannon acts high and mighty ordering reparations for starting as a plastic surgery devised by Claremont and then evolving into a Nicieza plot device to misconstrue the Asianification of Betsy's face.
Kwannon isn't her name anymore and literally she is a ''nothing'' like Rosenberg dubbed her. She had a daughter who she let go to end up dead thus making her a terrible mother and an irresponsible person who betrays everyone to seek pleasure. Well done.
I hate how he turned the butterfly mith something about Kwannon's history. He should have picked another sign to represent her! The butterfly was part of Betsy's history even before all this mess of body swap, it was her sign, not Kawannon's. After all the history she built, they thought it would be ok to give everything to another character. Well, It's not.
ReplyDeleteI think her being mad a Betsy is a great addition because it creates a story link between the two. Ask me why that's important! Okay, comments don't work that way but Ill tell you anyway.
ReplyDeleteThis Psylocke is not failing and she's not going away. This is Marvel's solution to the awkwardness that was a British woman in an Asian body. Eventually (2021 at the latest), the x-books will get re-shuffled again and Psylocke will be in one of the new books. The one who is not guaranteed a spot is Betsy. Betsy may end up just like Brian, pretty much unseen until the next Excalibur reboot. Unless she has a character arc with her 'sister' so having her hate Betsy is a good thing.
That story can go many places. Elizabeth may well have been unaware of Kwannon's suppressed presence until she reconstituted both bodies. We don't know what they will do with that story (never address it at all is a distinct possibility given past trends) And that story can keep Captain Britain's (Betsy) character alive.
Asian Psylocke is staying, that version is the iconic version of Psylocke (Sorry to pink Psylocke fans, but it's been three decades now(I still love 213)) The x-men revival could begin sooner than later with the Launch of Disney+ and they will be using the iconic version.
For now, I'm happily following both and enjoying the golden age of two Psylockes. But I fully understand that from a Betsy perspective were standing on the edge of another 2001-4. Long stretches without any appearance and a possible fade into obscurity.
I rather they have their own identities and Betsy had kept her own codename and Kwannon was original, but if they must keep them linked it should be in a story that makes sense. Even if I thought linking them was beneficial to Betsy (and I'm not thoroughly convinced of that) i would still like it done in a way that doesnt insult the reader's intelligence. Betsy was literally dragged into Kwannon's drama without a choice. She was used as a tool to revive Kwannon by Kwannon's lover. They both never consented to the swap. Kwannon later showed up and disrupted Betsy's life by claiming she was Betsy. There is no backstory that supports Kwannon being mad at Betsy for anything. There is however,enough there to support Betsy being upset with Kwannon (even though I think neither is really to blame). I hope this has a good conclusion.
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ReplyDeleteThe art was so much better in Excalibur :)
ReplyDeleteNever been drunk in my life, but hey, thanks for the personal attack! That was lovely.
ReplyDeleteI agree Xiao. I honestly dont think Betsy will stick around long she will eventually become an outsider or sometimes ally to the XMen. When game developers, tv/movie writers ask for Psylocke they aren't going to ask or care for Betsy Braddock they want the ninja. So unless Betsy surprises us all and becomes a smash surprise hit as CB she wont last long sadly.
ReplyDeleteYup. This is very same insulting crap born in the very issue when Braddock was racelifted. Editorial wants their cake and eat it too. Somewhat ironically, they incorrectly assume (like Matsuo) that the physical shell of Kwanlocke is good enough and all that readers wanted.
ReplyDeleteIn other situations, I would share Xiaodave's concern. But Hickman is in charge of the X-Men as a whole (including both Betsy and Kwannon, even if he's not the one writing their books), and his runs are usually quite long, with planning in advance not for months, but for YEARS, so both are safe for a considerable time. And most of the changes he introduces tend to stick even after his runs end.
ReplyDeleteBut thinking in terms of other media (videogames, TV, movies), if Kwannon does become more popular than her, there's still a good chance that Disney/Marvel may move Betsy to another part of the Marvel universe, like the Avengers. I'm not too fond of the Avengers so I wouldn't like this change, but it could happen (especially if Marvel decides to make their roster more diverse in terms of nationalities and powers). They may even give her a push as a solo superhero if pushing and empowering female protagonists is still among their goals by then.
If any character is in risk of falling into obscurity with these codename changes, it's Brian.
Oh, and as for Unknown's questions about Kwannon's allegation that she was "numb" this whole time, one possibility I considered is that when she transferred Betsy's memories back to her (when she was dying due to the Legacy Virus), she may have also transferred her mind (or a copy of her mind, as I think she was still alive for a brief time after that, going to have her fatal duel with Matsuo if I remember correctly) by accident into Betsy's mind/brain. Once there, it likely got overwhelmed by Betsy's mind and became dormant.
ReplyDeleteI know, that's very complicated - but far less complicated than many things we've seen involving the X-Men, right? Plus, it somehow would help explain that scene during Fraction's run when Betsy had a duel in the mind plane against an evil version of herself: the Red Queen never mentioned putting that evil doppleganger inside her mind, so it could be Kwannon trying to take control (and failing, like she always does)...
LOL at some of these responses. Totally mature.
ReplyDeleteIn the original body-swap mess, writers intentionally wrote Kwannon as the less likeable character because it helps justify Betsy keeping the asian body. It was all so Marvel could keep their cultural faux pas that proved to be the best thing that happened to a character in terms of popularity.
In this day and age of "Wokeness", that simply cannot be anymore. So now, Marvel is "making amends" by putting the POC in the spotlight and making the white woman be apologetic about what happened.
They did Kwannon wrong in the start and to make up for it, they're throwing Betsy under the bus. It's really just their way of apologizing, really. Neither of these characters are to blame.
Also, these are fictional characters, so let's not act like they're conscious beings making conscious decisions. They act how they are written.
"They're not conscious beings making conscious decisions " tell that to Bryan Hill? That's the answer he gives "WELL Betsy stole her life first!"
DeleteI guess I was okay with the name going to Kwannon simply to give her character a chance. Given that Captain Britain was being made available (poor Brian). Oddly enough the butterfly was there from the start, I wanted her to keep that. I was hoping we might see a Psylocke that was angrier and more physical (and lo and behold) and a Captain Britain that was more telepath / Telekinetic. (Jury's out.)
ReplyDeleteI agree with Xiaodave. If anything, I wish Betsy had kept the butterfly sig. That was hers.
ReplyDeleteI understand the Psychic Knife going to Kwannon. Betsy only started manifesting it in Kwannon's body, leading me to believe that maybe it was an innate ability Kwannon had - to channel psychic energy into focused weapons.
But the butterfly was always Betsy's. Overall, this whole thing is a promising start. Flawed, but promising. I just wish the Kwannon character would be given a chance, both by writers and Anglo-Psylocke fans.
I can accept both guilt (from Betsy) and anger (from Kwannon) as personal emotional responses, but I don't think they are acceptable as rationally justified by what really happened. They can be emotional reactions but not a reflection of real facts, since Betsy has never stolen the body or life from anyone.
ReplyDeleteWhat is not acceptable, on the other hand, are the real thefts like the passage of the code name "Psylocke" from Betsy to Kwannon (admissible only if it was Betsy to pass it to Kwannon, not as a unilateral appropriation, and on this Betsy has absolutely no reason to feel guilty or to feel embarrassed to use that name or to be called that way) and, above all, the theft of the symbolism of the butterfly, which is not linked to the code name Psylocke but to Betsy, period.
This is what is most wrong with this story, the undue appropriation of butterfly mythology in favour of Kwannon. It's an absolutely unacceptable alienation against Betsy, she and she alone will always be the butterfly and the blade. Let the authors be less lazy and invent something new and personal for Kwannon.
Either a new codename or "Kwannon" I can accept being her name. I might pick this up later on because I see a lot of development for her. Shocking that she has a daughter and knowing she do have a real name. I'm definitely giving this title a change its just getting started plus did she said she going to have more members to her team too!!!
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ReplyDeleteRegarding this whole situation of Betsy feeling guilty over Kwannon, could it mean she was aware that Kwannon's mind was locked inside of hers and decided to just keep Kwannon there, powerless? If that's the explanation, that would sorta justify Kwannon's anger over her.
ReplyDeleteBut even if that's the case, I'm still team Betsy, of course. Kwannon was a jerk from the very first moment she met Betsy back in the 1990s, so I'm sorry if I still feel no sympathy for her.
Psylocke AND Elektra jogress shinkaaaaaa TO KwannonPsylektramon!
ReplyDeleteThis was my comment on the official page of Marvel. They will take it down for sure.
Xiaodave you must too change your name to XiaoRen xD
ReplyDeleteIt’s so hilarious to me that now that Kwannon is fully in control of her own body again, artists make an actual effort to draw her body as East Asian in phenotype versus usually looking Northern European.
ReplyDeleteAlso, is this new storyline of her being hidden deep inside the brain of the body answering the question I had from Mystery in Madripoor of how her soul got pulled from oblivion and back into her body once Bets vacated it?
Also, I haven't read the issue yet... But am I to understand that Kwannon is a slave name for this character, so this character then decides to trade that slave name for the slave name of Psylocke? Interesting.
ReplyDeleteI haven't read it either. Hoping to grab it Saturday. I mean Betsy took the name Psylocke and made it her own so I can get that part, what I dont get is why Kwannon thinks the name is hers if Betsy didn't bestow it upon her? Or why she doesnt remember the swap happened due to her lover trying to save her life? Betsy was literally dragged into her mess and it seems like we are supposed to forget that? Not cool lol.
DeleteRegarding Kwannon’s retention of. the dagger... Even if Bets first displayed it in her body, it is cannon that Bets is fully capable of manifesting it in her own body as well as shown in both the Sisterhood and Disassembled.
ReplyDeleteExactly when Kwannon first showed up attacking Betsy, she manifested a psychic Katana and that was when Kwannon was in the Betsy's British body (something the writers seem to want us to forget it seems). Legion also killed Xavier in Legion Quest with what appeared to have been a psychic dagger, so I'm wondering if all psychics can manifest weapons if they want (considering Betsy also taught teen Jean how to manifest psychic weaponry as well). Also I doubt Kwannon manifested anything before gaining half of Betsy's telepathy as she was just a low level empath before.
DeleteXMan i assume so. We've also seen Rachel and Quentin Quire manifest psychic weaponry.
DeleteImitation is the sincerest form of flattery. ;)
DeleteThe name thing doesn't make that much sense. The Marvel management probably made this mandatory, so they can keep on selling their toys and games without having to change anything. That's the only logical explanation. I bet Hill would have loved to give Kwannon another name (and outfit) to establish her as an independent character.
ReplyDeleteA new name and outfit I'm down for that!
Delete@obias_Chatti said...
ReplyDeleteXiaodave you must too change your name to XiaoRen xD
Ha! Personal attacks in two languages. At least you have a smiley on it.
All I can say is go new Asian Psylocke, and go, Betsy! Hopefully, both thrive.
I only bought Fallen Angles just to get every issue one of the Dawn of X line. I honestly felt like I betrayed Betsy reading this book
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ReplyDelete"Exactly when Kwannon first showed up attacking Betsy, she manifested a psychic Katana and that was when Kwannon was in the Betsy's British body (something the writers seem to want us to forget it seems). Legion also killed Xavier in Legion Quest with what appeared to have been a psychic dagger, so I'm wondering if all psychics can manifest weapons if they want (considering Betsy also taught teen Jean how to manifest psychic weaponry as well). Also I doubt Kwannon manifested anything before gaining half of Betsy's telepathy as she was just a low level empath before."
ReplyDeleteIn Kwannon's defense, their psyches at the time were so intertwined, she really truly believed she was Betsy Braddock. The confusion cleared up and the two women actually got along in the short time Kwannon was with the team as Revanche.
They had actually made peace before Kwannon's passing in Betsy's body, but i think it's being retconned as Kwannon actually being trapped in Betsy's psyche all this time, without any agency over her body, to justify her anger.
This is comics. Histories change and things at retconned all the time.
The retcon seems so lazy and it’s obvious the writer doesn’t know all that much about Psylocke or Kwannon. You’d think it would be easy for a writer to research on a character who only has 20+ appearances. Even I know more about Kwannon and the only thing I read with her in it was the Cyclops and Jean Grey wedding trade
Delete@Toffnut oh I know they were intertwined and not really Kwannon's fault lol. I'm just pointing out that if Kwannon is allowed to be unjustly and irrationally angry at someone she knows is a fellow victim in the body swap mess, then Betsy has more than enough arsenal to irrationally and unjustly blame the other victim if she so chose to (and probably has more of a case) lol. Betsy could start with Kwannon being on her deathbed/coma/vegetative state as the reason the whole thing even happened and it was her boyfriend kidnapping Betsy (and looking at her as a tool for Kwannon's benefit and not so much a human being) and seeking out Spiral to save Kwannon's life that put everthing in motion to begin with, then Betsy can end with Kwannon taking half her telepathy, disrupting her life and getting all her friends to doubt her because she falsely claimed to be Betsy Braddock (which Kwannon now knows was not the case. Something that some would say would warrent an apology on Kwannon's part).I would love a reconciliation between the women, but on factual events not some made up story to cast Betsy as some monster who did to Kwannon what Rogue did to Carol. Kwannon so far reminds me of those annoying people who get mad at someone their spouse cheated with when that person had no idea the spouse was married, but overlooks getting mad at the actual spouse who cheated lol. I hope I enjoy the coming up "talk" they are bound to have lol.
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ReplyDeleteXiaodave we get personal with spammers who think they can steal this blog from Betsy just like Kwannon steals the name, powers and symbols from Betsy.
ReplyDeleteHave several seats and a packet of smileys.
I agree that the retcon shows lack of research on Hill's part, but I do think there will be healing between the two characters. I think their intention is to tell a story of reconciliation, and reconciliation is a journey. It does not happen in one issue.
ReplyDeleteBut first we must delve into Kwannon and her origins and just her as a character, with all her positives and all her flaws. Maybe, in whatever journey the writers have for her, she'll find peace and maturity to understand that Betsy didn't have much of a choice, either.
Their story has just begun and I will hold final judgement for until it is over.
One I know that from the time when Betsy was transformed by the Hand all her problems started. The problems have got huge and the body swap is a swollen tick that won't let go of its victim. Kwannon is sucking all the life and energy from Betsy.
ReplyDelete@X-Man I wanna heart 💜, like 👍 and frame 🖼️ your comment on my wall! Your reasons are lit!
ReplyDelete@Kiki thank you :)
DeleteX-Man you are one of the nicest, reasonable minded commenters to the blog. We appreciate you
Delete@Randybear thank you so much :) I appreciate having this site to go to and the hard work put into it.
DeleteI don't think Kwannon hates Betsy, I think she is terrified of her actually. Betsy also is a reminder that she was vulnerable and weak, which caused her to lose her own agency. There will be a reckoning one day, make no mistake about that. Though I love the idea of a Kwannon, I am always rooting for Betsy to be the ultimate victor.
ReplyDeleteI know it’s a controversial opinion, but wasn’t part of the reason Betsy ended up in Kwannon’s body due to wish fulfillment via the Siege Perilous. Her desire to be tempered steel instead of being a vulnerable princess is likely one of the reasons why the universe set her occupation of Kwannon’s body into motion.
ReplyDeleteI mean wasn’t one of Claremont’s original ideas for her to just be temporarily wearing an Asian face that eventually shattered and revealed her own. So, as a previous commenter said, Betsy thrived and benefitted from the body swap, from Kwannon’s vantage point that must be tough. Based on this book I’m not sure she blames Betsy (she said she just wanted her to be happy when she was in her body because she was the only “her” in the world), but sometimes we resent the happiness of others when it has no real direct correlation or bearing on our own. Sometimes other people just remind us of our darkness, shortcomings, baggage etc. Look at social media.
I did the think hammering the butterfly motif home in Kwannon’s backstory was hamfisted and unnecessary, but otherwise I thought this was better than I expected it to be. Honestly, I thought it was going to be a straight up dumpster fire, but it’s actually looking like it might be the actual X-force book of the group.
I really think Betsy as Captain Britain was the right move. Her design is great, it plays to her family legacy, honors her yearning to be a great warrior, and she has a team of some of the most iconic and beloved members of the X-men at their peak.