To celebrate the 300th edition of X-Men Monday at AIPT, Senior X-Men Editor Tom Brevoort gave an in-depth interview touching on the future of the X-line — including key insights about Betsy Braddock following the end of X-Force. He acknowledged the passionate fanbase around her, the challenges of defining her current direction, and the reality of sales-driven decisions at Marvel.
As readers, it's more important than ever to keep emailing officex@marvel.com to demand a new book for Betsy and to show continued support for the character.
AIPT: Betsy Braddock in every book. That’s the answer [to make 80% of X-Men fans all happy in the same way].Tom: If only. And not to poke it, but that very vocal segment of fandom was writing in before the last X-Force issue even came out, going, “When is she going to be in another book?” It’s like, she’s in a book right now, guys. It was a book that you guys liked, and a lot of other people didn’t pay attention to. So now it’s going to go away, and maybe there’ll be another chance. So you’re certainly showing me that there are a number of people who like that character or like this iteration of that character.
Although even within that, there’s a span of people who want her to be Psylocke again, there are people who want her to stay as Captain Britain, and there are people who want her to be some other new thing that’s neither of the two, but that speaks to her background. So right there, it’s sort of a multiple-choice question — which is the way to go? And the answer is: The best idea wins.
AIPT: So, my next question is actually inspired by Betsy’s fanbase. Obviously, you want to create comics that readers enjoy — but they also have to sell. So, what is the most effective and constructive way for X-Fans to express demand for a character?
Tom: Well, certainly showing up when those characters appear and/or when those characters appear in stories that are to people’s liking. Just because somebody likes Betsy Braddock doesn’t mean they’re going to love every Betsy Braddock story that gets done. It’s the monkey’s paw of being a comic book fan that people will be dying to have a favorite character show up again, and then they will, and it’ll be in some story or some usage they just don’t like at all. That’s a very familiar story.
But in addition to being vocal about it and bombarding me — all of that never hurts — you can also get the word out to other people. Like you said, we are a business, and the thing that’s going to move the needle the most is actual sales. Actual paying customers coming to the book and showing there’s an audience there that will put their money where their mouth is. It’s a difficult thing for any one fan, but for groups, it is possible to move the needle.
Honestly, it happens very rarely, in my experience. The greatest example of that I’ve ever seen were the fans of Spider-Girl, the Tom DeFalco, Ron Frenz, and Pat Olliffe series. That was a series that seemed like it was teetering on the verge of cancellation every six months. And whenever that word would go out, you would see that hardcore fanbase mobilized effectively in terms of getting stores to increase their orders, or in terms of getting book buyers to be more interested in carrying collected editions.
Those fans were incredibly clever and effective at getting their message across. They weren’t just telling you what they want, but showed an actual understanding that moving the needle is the whole game. Because while there are fans of Spider-Girl and Betsy Braddock, there are fans of every other character. You can’t name a character that doesn’t have their fans. But the Spider-Girl fans are the gold standard in terms of that type of activism.
AIPT: Are there any updates you can share on where Betsy Braddock — and Rachel Summers — might land following X-Force?
Tom: Right now, X-Force has run its course in its current iteration, and that means both Betsy and Rachel are sort of back to being active X-Men characters that could show up anywhere. Is there a specific plan yet? Not one that I’m ready to say anything about.
We’ll see a couple of hints of Rachel in a few places. I read a script just this morning that had some Rachel activity in it. But I can’t direct you to a specific point where those fans will get exactly what they want. I don’t know that all of those fans can have exactly what they want, because like I said, it’s a span. But again, for all the Betsy and Rachel fans, there are all the fans of all the characters that weren’t in any of the initial launch books, who are also waiting their turn for their favorites to show up again. It’s like a line for resurrection.
AIPT: Before we move on from Betsy, as a follow-up, based on what you’ve read online and in fan mail, what are your biggest takeaways on why Betsy Braddock is so appealing to her fans?
Tom: That’s a fairly good question, and I’m not sure I could point to one specific thing. Certainly, she’s got history. She’s a character who has been around since the ‘70s in a variety of different iterations. I think people have definitely keyed into her as the champion of Avalon. I think people seem to be really invested in her relationship with Rachel, more so than I might’ve anticipated before getting into this. But I don’t know that there’s any one specific thing that I could point to yet.
And all the readers of X-Men Monday can now bombard me with the obvious thing that I’m not thinking of. And that’s fine. They should definitely do that — I have plenty to learn.
AIPT: Tom, is there anything else you’d like to share or tease?
Tom: I guess the only thing I could tease is it’ll be a big end of year, for good or ill. I’m hoping for good, but you can never predict these things ahead of time. But a big end of 2025 for the X-Men and the line in general.
AIPT: And the X-Men will never be the same again?
Tom: I don’t know about that, but it will certainly be catastrophic and earth-changing. And nobody will miss that it’s going on.
AIPT: And maybe we’ll see Betsy there.
Tom: Maybe. Maybe.
Sounds grim
ReplyDeleteThanks for this update. I didn't realize many readers are invested in Elizabeth being with Rachel.
ReplyDeleteRachel fans are mostly the ones who like it, since she can't be with Kitty and they hate all her male love interests, Betsy's the best shot for her getting a romantic story
DeleteThere really isn’t. It’s just one very vocal XTwitter person pushing this nonsense “Retsy” thing as if they were a single entity. It’s king of weird if you think about it.
DeletePerhaps the most popular couple in recent years. So many people are fans of this.
Delete@Nate, I didn't know there was a “Retsy” phenomenon on that platform. I have avoided Twitter for years as I think it does know one any emotional or cognitive favors. And now that it’s become X, I will never join it.
DeleteEverytime he speaks he proves to me that he shouldn't be an X-Men editor, he doesn't know or care about Betsy he just cares about profit
ReplyDeleteHe's the most dangerous X-Villain right now.
Delete"(...) and that means both Betsy and Rachel are sort of back to being active X-Men characters that could show up anywhere"
ReplyDelete...I guess that's better than nothing. Still, instead of being cameos in other X-books, I'd like to see Betsy and Rachel becoming permanent parts of a roster. I think they'd fit very well in Logan's team, since most of their closest friends are there (then again, I'm not following that book to know if its stories are actually good).
You know, these days I was re-reading the Disassembled run (the X-Men one, not the Avengers one), and while it had its share of flaws, I think Marvel made a huge mistake not keeping Betsy and Kwannon the way they were in that run. I think that Kwannon could regain her memories and reclaim the Revanche codename while keeping the revamped ninja outfit with that mask and hood (which made her look more mysterious). I think she'd still become popular with the readers that liked the "Ninjalocke" legacy by being the stealth expert with the psi-knife, while Betsy could still use her TK sword and shield while keeping the Psylocke identity. I get that they thought that giving both women new mantles would be a change of pace, but so far it was very negative for Betsy's visibility - and while Kwannon seems to be getting a lot of attention as the new Psylocke, it also seems to be hindering her development as her own character.
Agreed @Fsaker.
DeleteIf wonder if TH never pitched that Apocalypse story and was given Betsy in the process if thats the direction it would have gone?
I thought that outfit for Kwannon was great. Looked like the classic outfit, but different enough to know it wasn't Betsy,
Dissasembled Psylocke/Betsy was amazing and still my favorite outfit.
I think I also kinda subconsciously considered Thorne's Betsy to be a continuation of Dissasembled Betsy lol.
Hope to see Betsy someplace new very soon and without the CB mantle :)
Since Kwannon is back to her original body, it's confusing why she retained all Betsy's power and signature cause she was initially an empath. Unless, she inbits a body that has Betsy's DNA in it - which is problematic. Not to mention how she reclaim the codename Psylocke is just doesn't make sense. I also really like the initial iteration of Kwannon in Uncanny - a mysterious ninja with hood and Japanese accent. At the moment she's just like a copy of what Betsy was.
Delete@metalgorgomon, Kwannon having similar powers to Betsy's could be justified as such powers having just been "awakened" due to the experience of her connection to Betsy - kinda like how Betsy suddenly got telekinesis after "switching" powers with Jean (which I consider as Betsy having a dormant TK power and Jean just awakening it).
DeleteBut I agree that her decision to rename herself as Psylocke made no sense, considering that she was never Psylocke before or during the body swap to begin with. Then again, we all know why this really happened (Marvel deciding to keep "Ninjalocke" due to commercial appeal), right?
----
@X-Man, indeed, Thorne's Betsy does feel like a continuation of Disassembled Betsy. And that's because he wrote her as, you know, Betsy, while TH's Betsy felt like she was trying to create a new character with Betsy's façade. It's ironic that Thorne actually wrote some of TH's ideas (like Betsy being part of a X-team despite being Captain Britain - showing that she doesn't need to wear her armor all the time or be constantly dragged into Otherworld's affairs -, or her romance with Rachel) in a much more convincing way than she did.
Maybe what happened is this: the die-hard Betsy fans — people like us — will follow her into almost any story. So to Tom Brevoort’s point, the book did have a core audience. But then he asked, why didn’t anyone else show up? Why didn’t the wider X-Men fanbase or casual readers get on board?
ReplyDeleteAt the same time, if the argument is that there are more fans of Betsy and Rachel together than Marvel originally thought, then why didn’t those fans support the books either, after many attempts to make it work? That suggests that maybe the pairing, or at least the way it was written and presented, just didn’t connect. It wasn’t enough to draw in new readers or keep the momentum going.
So you could reasonably conclude that the people who didn’t buy the book didn’t like what they saw. Who really knows all the factors at play, but what we can say is that the story wasn’t reaching a broad enough audience. And when that happens, something has to change — whether it’s the direction, the tone, or yes, even the relationship.
Maybe the truth is that more people don’t like the pairing than it seems — the loudest voices online don’t always reflect what most readers actually want.I don’t think breaking them up would be an attack on representation and maybe they are afraid of a backlash. As someone who’s part of the LGBTQ+ community, I want to see queer stories that are compelling and dynamic — not ones that feel stagnant or forced like they are checking a box. If the relationship isn’t engaging enough to carry a book, then it’s time to try something else. I mean if everything comes down to sales, thats just good business.
I agree somewhat @Banquo40.
DeleteThough I definitely will say even die hards have limits lol.
I gave Howard 2 chances and she never delivered imo, when she did the 3rd book, I couldn't bring myself to purchase smh lol.
I think at least the difference here is Brevoort knows a lot liked Betsy in the direction Thorne was taking her vs knowing a lot disliked Howard's version.
I do think one thing that may not have helped is X-Force being so isolated and not really connected to other X-Stories.
I agree with what you said about backlash too.
Sometimes I think tptb try too hard, like as a Black man I understood what the Fallen Angels writer and TH was trying to say with the Kwannon and Betsy mess.
However, it was kinda insulting.
Yes, I never liked a white woman being in control of a minority woman's body (reminded me of the movie "Get Out" lol), but I also understood that Betsy had no say in the events and was a victim in all of it.
No (or at least imo most) minority would ever blame Betsy just solely because she is a white woman.
And I will never support victim blaming.
It seemed like tptb couldn't get that part, and also seemed like its possible they aren't getting that Betsy and Rachel are just a couple.
If they break up, I think most of the audience won't think its because tptb are against it being a lgbtq pairing and more cause they are kinda boring lol.
I also disliked Betsy with Neal and Fantomex as well lol.
But I definitely agree with a lot of what you said.
I recall that time when Tini compared Betsy and R’Chel to read c and Start, and I thought, “okay, homegirl is kinda deluded.”
DeleteMaybe I'm too hot today lol, but it actually doesn't sound grim to me.
ReplyDeleteI think he definitely knows where/what book Betsy is going and just can't or won't say yet.
I also think it is a good sign so much of this article is about her. He definitely is seeing she is a very popular character.
Imo I think he is going to remove the CB mantle from her. I think his statements that a lot liked the direction she was going with Thorne means fans have been very vocal and he noticed.
Overall X-Force was a team book, so I don't think he could believe Betsy all by herself would make or break sales (which were not bad imo) or that she alone would be responsible for it.
I do wish they would have let Thorne reveal that Tank was Colossus earlier, because I think having both Peter & Betsy would have helped it sell even more.
I'm definitely going to write in and say I honestly preferred Betsy with Warren. I just don't feel like she and Rachel fit or are believable lol.
And I'm definitely up to educating him on Betsy if he really wants lol.
All of X-Force currently doesn't have a "home" so im pretty happy to see that Betsy is being talked about so much.
Crossing fingers :)
In my letter to Tom, I asked him if he’d consider reuniting the Outback
Deleteiteration for at least a one-shot or a mini if not a full-on series. I think it’d be interesting to see the gang on a mission or a few and see how team dynamic might change and status the same in various facets since all the members of the run have had such wild experiences since that short time.
@Rahsaan that's a pretty cool idea. I'd love to see that.
DeleteI think Betsy's proverbial "Goose" is cooked for now in the comics, mostly because they just don't know how to re-integrate her back into the comics successfully. It's so funny and ironic, a lot of the newer X-Men fanbase used to chastise older fans for sexualizing and fetishizing Betsy because she was in the sexy Asian ninja body, but look at what Marvel and the new fans have done...they basically kept the body, and threw Betsy Braddock the character in the garbage can. She is now on the same level as a Dazzler.
ReplyDeleteThough I like Kwannon, she is a bland character and try as they might to flesh her character out, she still has not found a definitive voice (IMO). She is basically just the body, the Jim Lee Psylocke body.
Before Tini Howard's "Captain" treatment and queer feminist makeover, Betsy had been a prominent part of the X-Men. She had been constantly in the book and part of major storylines. The biggest mistake was in separating her from the X-Men team proper and islanding her off in other books. All so that Tini Howard could write what she wanted without having to do homework or pay attention to what was going on in the main X-Men titles.
If a character is gone too long, it becomes harder and harder to go back. Now that they have the Kwannon Body/Paper Doll in the "Psylocke" role, with all Betsy's powers and signature, it's easy for folks to just forget about Betsy all together. I say the character should be shelved until someone has a way to fix her. I don't want to see her thrown on a current book with this awful crop of bad writers. Gail Simone barely uses any X-Men in Uncanny. Jed MacKay's generic superhero book with throwaway characters and chatgpt plots. Stephanie Phillips boring "girl comic" with Jean Grey being a secondary character in her own book. I don't trust anyone at Marvel currently with Betsy Braddock.
Can a writer be brave enough to have Rachel break Betsy's heart and cheat on her with Kitty? That will give the fan service and also that relationship is the actual lesbian ship that has been built up for decades. Betsy needs to go back to her old ways. Just because it wasn't her body doesn't mean it wasn't her mind. This new Betsy is something different that a lot of fans don't like. She was sleek and sexy for 30 years and suddenly she's caucasian so she has to wear bulky armor and act masculine?
ReplyDeleteI think we have two very vocal Captain Britain fans. And honestly you cannot fault or hate on them. If thats what they like then thats what they like but I do disagree that most fans are on board with it. I think our fans that want her to go back to Psylocke need to come to terms with that not happening and just start pushing for her to not be Captain Britain anymore because that has taken her away from the X-Universe. And for the fans that are really into the mantle and Corps and say that there is so much to explore on that side must also realize that Marvel has literally done NOTHING with it. They didnt treat her like Jane Foster or Captain Marvel. They didnt put her in events they didnt let her cameo in the broader Marvel universe. It just didnt work. No writer seemed interested in doing anything. So as a fan base we must align and be a strong voice. TBs whole thing is that he wants writers to have interst and pitch and that he doesnt ask for pitches.
ReplyDelete@Unknown RE, your last three sentences: which is exactly why people who point the finger exclusively at Tini Howard and J. D. White for the Krakoan era fiasco are full of rubbish. Don't you guys think that if the new Betsy was interesting enough to writers, someone else like Kieron Gillen (who's used her in the past) would have written stories with her?
ReplyDeleteThe queer feminist makeover courtesy of TH and the little blue haired minion editors at the time ruined Betsy. They made her for the gays and only the gays. Now whenever someone sees Betsy solo on a cover or a preview immediately people freak out because Rachel isn’t attached to her hip.
ReplyDeleteEditorial hand delivered Betsy to the flag warriors and now it’s hard for Betsy to not be perceived as anything else or with real substance. She can’t just be a hero anymore we have to be reminded that her sexuality is at the forefront which just takes so much away from her because Betsy shouldn’t JUST be a representation for a minority of people.
I’ve always loved Betsy and the focus now just being her relationship with Rachel is so boring and predictable.
Exactly. I´m gay and fully againt this pair.
DeleteI think some of you need to watch how you say this. Hand delivered to us gay people?? Most of us weren't even on board with the relationship. She's been bi since Cluster. They didnt do this for the gays.
DeleteWatch how I say what? You think this is an opinion but it’s an observation. You can’t dictate someone to speak only what you want to hear. That’s not how the internet works. She’s been involved with women since Cluster however it was a defining factor at the forefront of the character like it is now. Whether you want to accept that or not she’s just one of the many token queer characters now, continuing to lose substance from her character and history to pander to people on twitter who see her and say “SHES SO GAY!!!”
DeleteHonestly, I had to think of what bothered me so much of the pairing with Rachel, and I think its because it was treated as a “coming out” moment—but that framing risks flattening a character who has always embodied complexity and fluidity. To suddenly define her as exclusively attracted to women doesn’t align with her long-established history of relationships with men or her core identity as a psychic who moves beyond the physical.
ReplyDeleteBetsy’s nature has never been about rigid categories. As someone who can connect deeply on the psychic plane, her attraction might also be seen to be more about energy and essence than gender and physical bodies. We’ve even seen her, in alternate realities, form tender bonds with unexpected characters—like Blob—because she sees what others don’t. I mean, now many times have we seen Betsy say I do not need eyes to see? That kind of emotional perception doesn’t fit within a binary idea of sexuality. Given that this is comics, and anything is possible, should they have created a new term? Psi-Sexual maybe? Something that defies the boundries of the physical body where gender does not even matter? That to me would be interesting writing, pushing forward ideas and not forcing real world concepts into what is essentially a fantasy narrative. I mean, in a scenario where someone can kill someone with a thought, or shoot lighting bolts down, anything is possible.
Rather than pinning her down, Betsy should not be recognized as lesbian, bisexual, fluid or pansexual —but more accurately, a free spirit who doesn't need neat lables. The current narrative narrows her unnecessarily and misses the chance to honor her as one of Marvel’s most unpredictable heroes.
💯
Delete@Banquo40, to be fair, I don't think Betsy's sexual orientation was changed to "exclusively attracted to women"; I think they just changed her into someone who is "also attracted to women" (and I guess the same applies to Rachel's sexual orientation, as she also has a history with male characters like Kurt and Korvus).
DeletePersonally, I don't have a problem with this change; the thing that bothered me is that TH introduced that change in a way that felt shallow. Thorne's depiction of Betsy and Rachel's relationship felt way more genuine to me.
When I saw that there's a blog dedicated to Betsy Braddock a.k.a. Psylocke a.k.a. Captain Britain, I was intrigued. I was a new Betsy fan, a fresh butterfly who just came out of my cocoon. Although, I must say that my first true reaction was that of shock considering how much hate was directed against her and the writer who was handling her at the time, Tini Howard. This is my tiny true confession, I liked the way Howard wrote Betsy and everybody else back then. I thought that their Betsy was so similar to her 70's self, pre-Psylocke days. The quick-witted nature of her character plus the occasional bantering with Brian, and her strong will to help everyone. I mean, she died protecting the realms and came back even amid Saturnyne's awful jealousy-induced magic spell. So, yeah, I was delighted.
ReplyDeleteThen, I remember how I first discovered the character. It wasn't her original 70's self within the pages of Captain Britain comics. It was X-Men. The uncanny psi who acted differently under Claremont's supervision, who was a little less confrontational and callous. She was slinkier and more slippery as a character. She was written almost like Jean Grey pre-Phoenix, but with differences. Jean never had the urge to just kill someone, but Betsy had it. Somehow, a little bit of her callousness managed to be retained during her tenure as Psylocke. That's cool to see, but then again Claremont's one of her original creators!
Then came the Lady Mandarin era, in which Betsy became Asian. Except she wasn't, for if it was a mere physical surgery then her body was still hers a.k.a. white English body. So, yellow face. Ninja swimsuit and pretty sash. She became so different, but I saw how many people actually liked her more as such. I was torn, thinking why couldn't they just have a new member who's an Asian? Oh, there was, but she was a kid who had the power to create firecrackers and her name was Jubilee, so she wasn't that exciting for the grown men, I guess.
We all know the rest. Retcon, Kwannon a.k.a. Revanche, more retcon, the actual Asian woman died, Betsy then became truly Asian (or, rather, mixed considering Spiral had spliced their DNAs and redistributed them for both bodies). Representation cookie gained however dubious, ninja Betsy ruled the world except for the time she died and didn't. Then, the restoration of Kwannon happened, Betsy was back to her original image though not her original body because that had been destroyed by the Sisterhood, she became Psylocke for a while until Krakoa era occured and Kwannon replaced her as the role. Suffice to say, I was deeply troubled by it. On the one hand, Kwannon didn't make sense to be Psylocke considering that was not even the image she was shown to have liked (sexualized with the blue swimsuit and tattered style thigh high boots) and Betsy had worn her body while being Psylocke for many years, but who's gonna be Psylocke when Betsy became the new Captain Britain?
Anyway, my point is that, as an Asian I am genuinely happy that Kwannon get to be Psylocke because so many people associate with that version of the character. Also, she's actually Kwannon, the Japanese lady who had died in Betsy's body who then came back to life. A second chance for her, say, and once again I liked Betsy as Captain Britain. Never once did I feel that she was masculinized or uninteresting because she's in a homosexual relationship with Rachel Summers now. Why? Because she didn't feel masculinized or uninteresting to me. I am queer myself and I'm always happy to see more people like me, even if only fictional, get to be presented in any mediums including comics. But then, because she wasn't the sexy slinky telepath-telekinetic (ugh, must she really have to be telekinetic too? Jean Grey, you'll always be famous apparently) that many others are fans of, she's constantly ridiculed by even the fans.
DeleteI'm...kind of through with it? Not with Betsy, mind you, but just with the fandom in particular. Maybe with this blog? Idk. Truly, without it I would never know about the latest hot news of Betsy, but the more time I spent reading it I realized it's just become a place to vent and not much more. I'm sorry, but this is what I feel about it. Or, rather, what I think is happening nearly every time the question is being raised: should Betsy Braddock become Psylocke again? I'd like her to be, for mutant as a metaphor for minority identification reason, but it seems that she can't even be Psylocke without putting the other woman down. I know that they're both fictional characters, but I love them. They're real to me, y'know?
So, with this lengthy post, I'm here to bid my farewell. Thank you for the news and updates, for opinions from fellow blog visitors and the owner as well, and for the wonderful memory of having been part of a kaleidoscope a.k.a. the conglomeration of Betsy Braddock fans. May we see each other again in better time tomorrow.
With love,
Daud.
I do like the Kwannon is an actual character now & not just the exotic & sexy ninja body Betsy was put in. I think the bigger problem was ultimately that. Various writers during her ninja era either really liked her or openly discussed how they saw her as nothing but T & A in the 90's, once the ninja craze died down.
DeleteI think that's also why she suffered in comparison to characters like Emma. They've both been criticized for being nothing but sex dolls but Emma gets more of a pass. I could go on about how misogyny affects fictional women of color just like it does real women of color more than fictional/real white women.
I know people who absolutely hate Remenders Betsy saying it made her nothing but a whiny morose character. For some people I've talked to, Remender became the Betsy writer. Especially for those who disliked her X-treme & Exiles eras.
I think the hardest part was, how do you rebuild a character, who while we know her lore, to the casual fan, was just the sexy purple ninja?
Some people argue to make her the white ninja of the X-books (spot is filled by Kate for decades). Keep her Captain Britain but get a new creative team & either sleek/sexy up the armor. Or put her in an espionage thriller type of book.
I feel like for the few things TH did right there were a lot of things she got wrong. Then again I wouldn't want the task of having to rebuild a character from the ground up.
Another big issue with TH books was how divorced it was from the other X-books at the time. Early Krakoa books were mostly fire. Howard's felt so divorced from what was going on that I know a lot of people dropped it at various points.
We all know comics get expensive & if a book is going to be mid at best I feel it needs to be somewhat supportive of the bigger themes at hand.
Whether they keep her as Captain Britain, put her back on a direct X-Men team, make her a spy for the crown or mutants, I don't think everyone will be fully happy.
My personal wish would be to put her in a mini solo. Have a small few supporting characters but it's fully about her. Could be a good way new & old fans to get to know her again.
Jean, Storm, Magik & Kwannon's solos have been the only good things out of post Krakoa books.
An editor mentioned each was green lit as a mini. 4-6 issues. Yet due to decent enough sales a few of those titles got turned into ongoings.
@Daud, I'm sorry to see you go as I enjoyed your perspective and liked reading your thoughtful replies.
DeleteIn today’s comics discourse—online especially—there’s a troubling trend: the moment someone voices criticism or disagreement, they’re accused of “hating.” Don’t like a storyline? You must hate the writer. Question a character direction? You’re clearly toxic.
ReplyDeleteBut here’s the thing: disagreement is not hate. Saying a plot doesn’t work, or that a character feels off, isn’t an attack—it’s a response. In a medium built on long-running continuity, legacy characters, and decades of emotional investment, fans caring deeply isn’t the problem. It’s the point.
Comics are a collaborative art form that lives and breathes through its readership. Engaged fans talk back. They analyze. They challenge. That’s not negativity—that’s passion. And yes, passion sometimes sounds sharp. But taking the time to write about what isn’t working for you—whether on a forum, in a review, or in a tweet—is not the same as venting for the sake of tearing someone down. It means you care enough to respond.
Reducing every opinion that isn’t glowing praise to “hate” is a convenient oversimplification. It avoids the complexity of real engagement and shuts down dialogue before it can begin. Worse, it sends the message that creators are above feedback, and that the only acceptable form of engagement is applause. That’s not how comics have ever thrived.
And here’s another familiar pattern in online spaces: the dramatic exit. Someone lays down a sweeping condemnation—accusing “everyone on this site” of being haters or bad-faith critics—and then logs off with a mic drop. That kind of “take my ball and go home” moment might feel cathartic, but it’s ultimately a passive-aggressive shutdown of the very conversation they were a part of. It closes the door on mutual understanding and replaces engagement with a performance of finality.
Is that really helpful? Or does it just reinforce the echo chambers we claim to dislike?
From the earliest fan letters in the backs of issues to heated debates at cons, comics culture has always been shaped by discussion. We owe it to each other—and to the medium—not to flatten all discourse into binaries of love vs. hate. There’s a wide space in between.
Let’s protect that space. Let’s make room for conversation, disagreement, and yes, even frustration, without rushing to label it as malicious. Because comics deserve to be taken seriously. And taking them seriously means being able to say when something doesn’t sit right—without being told you’re just a hater.
And I promise thats the last long winded response I will give, sorry everyone on this site. But for me, I appreciate all your comments and I love reading them!
ReplyDeleteDon’t apologize I honestly love reading your posts, they are always very well put and fair! Thank you for contributing here!
DeleteBanquo40 you should join the CBR forum for Betsy Braddock
Delete@fsaker It’s fair enough to say that the current pairing isn’t necessarily meant to make Betsy Braddock exclusively attracted to women going forward. As I said before, Betsy should be someone who sees beyond physical form and gender — as a telepath, that makes sense. So in that sense, the Rachel pairing is not definitive or out of the norm for her.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, I do think there was a bit of an agenda that put Betsy where she is now, and it will be hard to get her out of it. She’s been positioned as a queer icon so definitively that it feels like she’s being locked into that identity — not because it grew naturally from her character, but because it served a broader editorial goal.
Speaking from within the community, my issue isn’t with Betsy being in a queer relationship — it’s how it was done. The question I keep coming back to is: why can’t they write great new queer characters? Why does representation so often come through the rewriting of legacy ones, especially when it doesn’t feel earned through actual character development?
What frustrated me most during the Tini Howard period is that it felt like the editorial team was telling us — that we were wrong to like what we liked. That only they knew what these characters were supposed to be, and eventually we’d come around and see the brilliance of it. But many of us didn’t. And instead of engaging with that response, it felt like the message back was: you’re wrong for not appreciating this.
In fairness, I want to be clear: I absolutely support more queer representation in Marvel and comics in general. But not just in sexuality. I want to see diversity in body types, in age, in cultural backgrounds — real representation, not just surface-level inclusivity or sudden identity shifts. Representation should feel expansive, not performative. And wasnt Psylocke with the female version of Fantomex once? If I remember correctly, it wasnt a big deal, it just was. That relationship with Fantomex wasnt great, but its the kind of messy relationship that is classic Betsy, and I kind of miss that.
@Banquo40, I agree; some comic book writers and editors want to show diversity - which is a great thing - but don't bother to make it relatable and part of the characters rather than their only defining trait.
DeleteAs for TH's run, it bothers me that almost everything in it felt rushed and shallow. That includes the way how Betsy and Rachel became a couple; it felt like one moment Betsy is giving Rachel a pet and Rachel asks her to dance at the Hellfire Gala, and the next moment they are kissing and declaring their love for each other, as if their previous interactions were enough to establish their feelings (they weren't). Then again, as I said, everything else also felt rushed and shallow, including Betsy's journey to build her self-esteem as the new Captain Britain, or the role of the other X-Men around her (really, can anyone here mention at least ONE noteworthy moment Rogue had in that run after waking from her coma? Sometimes I forget she was even part of the Excalbur team - and Rogue is easily among the top 10 best known X-Men).
Oh well. Thorne's representation of Betsy and Rachel as a couple felt MUCH more natural and relatable, as it felt like he wanted to show what kind of person each of them are rather than just using them as "the queer couple". It's a shame that his X-Force book was cancelled; I'd really love to see him getting a new X-team book (let's face it, the vast majority of solo X-books are doomed to fail; the X-Men characters have MUCH more appeal when they are together as a group and interacting with each other) and bringing Betsy with him - and if he decides to bring Rachel as well, I'm not complaining.
I don't think the relationship with Rachel is the big issue with Betsy. They've had interactions sense the 80's then when Claremont revived Betsy post aughts New X-men. I think it's once again the writing. I liked the pairing under Thorne's run. I think it boils down to a mix of fans feeling no one is good enough for her. Or at least can writer Betsy a partner who compliments her well enough. I know I'm in the minority for finding Betsy/Warren a bore. Similar to people who hated the Betsy/Neal pairing.
ReplyDelete@Alexander, I usually find the Betsy/Warren pairing boring, too. Of course, they had some great moments together, but overall I don't think he's a better partner to Betsy than Rachel. Personally, my favorite couple involving Betsy was when she was with Tom Lennox, but I think any relationship she gets is fine as long as it is written in a convincing way (I mean, Leah Williams paired Betsy with BLOB and made their relationship relatable) and as long as it isn't downright wrong (like when Claremont teased her with Doug despite Doug being underage at the time).
DeleteWell said Daud. It’s really unfortunate that this forum has become such a hotbed for everything anti modern Betsy Braddock. Who needs haters with fans like these. Captain Britain, hate it. Her relationship with Rachel, hate it. Any character development over the past six+ years, hate it. Any upcoming projects with Betsy, rip it apart with discourse and … hate it.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree that we've all become "haters" of modern Betsy, but it's more like extreme frustration watching the character be handled poorly and then being blamed (by Tom Brevoort or other editors) for why the character and books didn't do well. This justifies them not using her. I have supported everything that Betsy was featured in all throughout Krakoa. Every single issue of Tini Howards three series with her, I even supported those awful Pride comics just because Betsy was in them. I even supported the terrible Marvel Unlimited Infinity comics with Betsy.
DeleteWhile I am frustrated with the character's direction in the past several years, I do support her appearances. I liked what Geoff Thorne was doing with Betsy AND Rachel in the now canceled X-Force. I didn't start out liking it, but as the series progressed, I began to see where it was going.
I get it, characters change, like in real life people change. The problem is that the changes sometimes are very jarring, or don't make sense, and in this case, cause the character to not be used or phased completely out. Betsy has been erased from the X-Men...BETSY! To me, this is like erasing Storm, or Wolverine. I consider her to be an OG.
I know characters leave sometimes, and if they write a good exit story for Betsy, I would be satisfied instead of this stop-start, limbo state she is in.
Watch what you wish for they say. Was itching to get Betsy outta Revanche's chassis and now pay it twice the price. Pretender stole all from Betts and our girl is broke stuck and stained for life as the body snatcher who can't catch a break to be back with her A lister muties. Came to accept Marvel is cooking ish and churning. Snake oil made people think it's the cure and replaced it. Betts is bag lady Psylocke her home no more.
ReplyDeleteBetsy has an identity crisis that’s only gotten worse with every writer trying to “fix” the body swap by giving her a new identity. I think editorial’s been trying to solve it for years, but the truth is, it was lazy writing that got it there and probably unfixable. So instead of revisiting the swap again, why not let Betsy go on a real journey to reclaim her history?
ReplyDeleteNot to rehash the Kwannon story, but to explore what led up to it—places like the relics of the Outback, Madripoor, Spiral, Mojo, even the Siege Perilous. Not for nostalgia, but to finally make sense of it all and maybe she finds new information along the way. It’s also a great way to reveal and reconnect with her pre–body swap history, which has been mostly ignored.
She’s never truly dealt with what all of this did to her. This could be the story that finally resets her—not by rewriting anything, not by some magic remaking of her body, but by disovering who she might’ve been if her life hadn’t been hijacked by multiple entities. And maybe she realizes the Psylocke name was just another thing forced on her by Mojo. She’s tired of being a vessel and manipulated in the end. Let her let it go—and finally become someone of her own choosing, what she could have been and still can be.
Because the reality is, there’s very little chance she’s getting that name back, so it would be great to see her make a real revelation about it and actively reject it on her own terms. Then she could depart and move on from that point. I think thats a story worth telling.
@Banquo, I love this idea. I was very excited when the Siege Perilous came back into play during Knights of Ten… Only to have my heart sank at the really anticlimactic way it was used and how there was zero reflection from Betsy about how it was a significant factor in her and several of the X-Men’s lives and that properties of the Siege seemed wildly different (and not in a logical to evolution way) from how Claremont wrote it.
DeleteI think you should pitch your idea to Office X. With the right author, seeing Betsy go on a journey to see who she might have been without merging with Kwannon would be very fascinating.
@Rahsaan. I really think seeing her picking up the pieces up until the swap would be the key, and engaging the Siege Perilous could be the place for a reset. Something like this.
ReplyDeleteBetsy seeks clarity and healing, not revenge. She enters the Siege Perilous—not as a warrior, but as someone looking for answers. She confronts the semi-sentient force within, not to undo what’s been done, but to understand where her path diverged, to see what might have been had her destiny not been intercepted and manipulated.
The Siege, shows her not an alternate universe, but possibilities—a kaleidoscope of selves, the different versions she might have become: spy, sorceress, warrior, Queen of Britain, mutant diplomat, model, artist, even ordinary woman. And in each, there’s a through-line of agency — something taken from her when her path was diverted by others' agendas: Mojo, Spiral, even her own family.
She realizes that the Siege once intended to offer her a reset, a rebirth — but something hijacked that. Mojo perhaps corrupted the process, twisted it for his own entertainment. Maybe that’s when the body swap truly became inevitable — not a fate, but a theft of the future the Siege tried to give her.
And rather than mourning those lost paths, Betsy leaves with the knowledge that she can still define herself — not by returning to the past, or clinging to names and costumes that once fit, but by reclaiming the core of who she is and moving forward freely.
You can keep Kwannon and the swap itself unnamed or in the background, because the focus here is on Betsy’s autonomy and emotional reclamation — not retreading the trauma, but confronting it on symbolic terms. The Siege becomes a mirror that doesn’t shame her, or remakes her, but invites her to rebuild.
Where do you write suggestions to?
@Banquo, I love this! Please send it to:
Deleteofficex@marvel.com
And if they do proceed with your pitch, please ask them to credit you!
DeleteI am writing this comment to support this fabulous idea for a reset to Betsy Braddock!!
DeleteCheck in to be a party pooper. Marvel ain't gonna allow unsolicited ideas and real good ones that make sense. Betsy is doomed for as long Cebullskit calls the shots. With him Revanche will be his poster brat slap bang everywhere ad nauseam.
Delete@Kiki, we’re gonna put our collective intention into the universe and self-fulfill Banquo’s pitch!
Deletea lotta change my revelations say u all gonna b real pleased
ReplyDeletechange all around daud left the chat n 2 unknowns n lady iṣola all reenterin the chat
2nd krakoa age not far away as some might think
xforce ending will make way 4 regular pretty n pink n purple
Ok friends, I sent a pitch in!
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for encouraging me—I've never done anything like that before. I know some of you have said it can feel futile, and I don’t entirely disagree. Maybe they won’t read it or pay attention. But still… you gotta try, right?
Thanks for your effort and your contributions! I am choosing to believe they will read and maybe have enough enlightenment so that they understand that it's possible to keep/have/develop Kwannon as much as they want without overshadowing Betsy Braddock. Appropriately written, both can shine!
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